$38,000 for pads & rotors?

OK, so I know April Fool's Day is near, but ... is Forza correct in stating that it costs $38,000 to change pads and rotors in a 430? Kind of makes a 328 or Mondial 3.2 look like the bargain of all prancing horsedom, no?

 

Yet another one of those "pis***g" contests - who will quote the highest price ? :-D

 

It cost about 3K for the rotors and pads on my 430 (steel brakes).

Dave

 

430 scud CCM??

 

including install? or how much extra was that?

 

That was my column. Have you ever priced the cost of ccm brake parts for a 430?

 

I have just spoken to my local authorised F car dealer - Ferrari do a complete upgrade kit from steel to CCM rotors for the 430, includes all callipers, pads, discs etc to do full upgrade and therefore contains far more than is required for replacement of rotors due to wear. Price is £11,449 or I guess approx $18,400. Still a lot but nothing like the figures some have been quoting.

 

I got this upgrade for 10.000$ in 08.2009 but that was a special commercial action. And yes, it integrated everything including ABS ECU upgrade and full installation.

 

Great deal. I'm sure the upgrade can always be purchased cheaper as that was just list price I was quoted.

 

Almost $20K for brakes....that is insane, mostly so for a street car where the steel brakes are more than adequate. $38k Quote is even worse.

My personal criteria for a used ferrari:
No F1 tranny
No CCM brakes
Based on the guy with a $65,000 quote to fix his 430 convertible in another thread, no spiders? That one is a real head scratcher as well...

It's just my opinion, but the insane prices for these things makes the "old fashioned" 6-speed coupe w/steel brakes the car to own as a pre owned ferrari from a maintenance standpoint.

Initial owners of ferrari's often want the latest stuff love things like CCM brakes- they gladly pay lots of money for those options...to me the only factory option worth the money is the contrast stitching which is like $400- the rest of stupidly priced, and some of the options like Carbon Fiber accents and aforementioned F1 & CCM brakes decrease the value of the car in my mind (others certainly disagree with me of course) given these crazy prices to fix. You could buy a CCM car and never need to do the brakes if you own the car & drive it for 20K miles, but the next guy you sell it to will be thinking of that brake change that costs as much as a Honda Accord and may walk away unless the price is adjusted accordingly...

 

I'd be more interested in knowing what the cost is to change your brake system FROM ccm's and go to a set of steel brakes on say a 430 Challenge?

 

Information is correct for CCB brakes and the following cars:

Pre-08 F430 with CCB, 360 Challenge Stradale, 08+ F430 and Spider, Scuderia and 16M, California, F458 Italia, 599GTB with CCB.

The cost is even higher for 599 GTO.

Call your local parts supplier and check. Rotors are still in the $8500/piece range, and pads are around $2,000 per axle.

There are alternatives to get it done cheaper.

On a Porsche Boxster Spyder, a $60k brand new car (compared to a $350k 599 GTB) the same bill of parts is $16k, or 25% of the car's msrp.

 

I think you have slightly missed the point being made about price - $18,000 is a stupid price but is the list price to change from steel to CCM, includes everything required including complete change to the callipers as well and labour - all parts are changed. This is list and from experience big discounts are given. If you own a CCM car and the front rotors eventually wear out you are looking at about $5k I believe. I don't know but assume rear rotors virtually never wear out? $5k is a lot of money but well within the price range of most owners who want the best. Lots of options available to switch to steel if the owner wants.

$65k spider roof is also a complete red herring, have checked with dealer, you can't buy a complete roof, they only come specified as parts so there is no list price for complete roof and required parts can be dealer fitted to solve any problem - don't understand that thread at all.

Can't argue about 6 speed manual car with steel brakes being cheaper to buy and maintain. But then so are lots of cheaper cars with better performance! Ferrari owners make their own choice about the trade off between cost, looks, performance and driving enjoyment.

 

If you look at Ricambi's catalog for the F430 Spider, pads are ~$4K, front rotors are ~$13,200, and rear rotors are ~$17,800. Total is ~$35,000. The rest except for the 575M HGTC front rotors (~$12,800, 398 mm, same size as Scud) and pads, consistently ~$4K, are the dreaded "call".

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

70001127 CCM KIT F430 BLACK LHD
70001141 CCM KIT F430 ROSSO RED LHD
70001143 CCM KIT F430 YELLOW LHD
70001145 CCM KIT F430 SILVER LHD
70001147 CCM KIT F430 RED LHD

It is a fast moving game. <$25k for a kit, when purchase this way. Still, it's hard to justify an upgrade like this for many owners.

We find more folks calling about the REVERSE proposition -- going from CCM back down to steel, using the Brembo kits.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?cPath=602&products_id=343651

 

Daniel,

Q. Do you have the weight difference between these STEEL and CCM discs?

Be interesting to see how much unsprung weight they are adding (or not) compared to the CCM's. I imagine most people don't even notice, except for the extra brake dust on their rims?

For people considerding this swap, worth pointing out you cannot just swap the discs and pads without getting the Ferrari SD3 machine hooked up to the car to switch the dashboard over to steel first.

 

Trev- The lightness of the CCM rotors is offset by the heavier weight of the 6 piston calipers. If someone is using 6 piston calipers for steel brakes, those weights would be approximately the same.

Here were the differences in the weights on Mov'It 396 x 36 mm rotor, 6 piston calipers, compared to the 330 x 32 mm rotors, 4 piston calipers off a 575M, same size as the F430 OEM rotors.

OEM rotor 22.2 lbs
Mov'It rotor 15.8 lbs
6.4 lbs lighter

OEM caliper and pads 10.8 lbs
Mov'It caliper and pads 13.0 lbs
2.2 lbs heavier

Overall weight savings 4.4 lbs per front wheel set.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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I am curious (and having just bought a car with CCM's), what would cause the Rotors themselves to need replacing, if you do not track the car or drive too crazy. If they do need systematic replacing from normal wear, when would that be, at 30k mi? 50k mi? Can those rotors merely be resurfaced...I have heard some debate about not being able to resurface cross-drilled rotors?

 

WTF is that little tea saucer to the left of the Mov'it rotor?

 

Taz, did you get finally the info from Mov'it that their CCM rotors can fit the F430 CCM using the stock CCM calipers? That would be a cheaper alternative and more efficient too (especially Gen 3 rotors) as the Mov'it rotors are well cheaper than the stock CCM rotors.

Thanks,
Stef

 

It's very difficult to estimate how long the CCM rotors will last. That depends on so many different parameters.
Stock CCM can not be refurbished from what I've been told. Although, the Mov'it rotors can be refurbished.

 

OEM CCB cannot be resurfaced, same restriction applies to Porsche PCCB, Lamborghini, Audi, Aston Martin CCB brakes.

MovIT rotors allow resurfacing, special tooling is required.

 

3062.97 parts, labor and tax. I did save about 100. because I didn't need front sensors so they just used 4 rear pads. Front and rear are identical.

Dave

 

What the heck would the SD3 change??? There's nothing electronic on the brakes except the ABS/DSC pump, and if you leave the same calipers (the main attraction of CCBs), the mechanicals would be identical. You'd be just changing rotors and pads. I'm sure the new pads and rotors would behave a bit differently at least (maybe more initial bite, etc), but the car wouldn't 'know' the difference. Curious on this.

Same here. Wasn't looking for CCBs, but car had them. Calipers are a lot nicer though . But yes, if they cost such a fortune, they should last a lot longer IMO. Mine, at 9K mles, still feel like new, and by that I mean I feel no ridge on the rotor surface where pads start wearing it down. The pads also look great (haven't seen a new one, so can't compare them), but based on the '10/10' grade in all 4 wheels given by the PPI, they should have minimal wear at best.

If I ever had the need to replace the pads and rotors are still like new, I'd probably just replace the pads, which would cost about the same as the Brembo rotor/pad combo. But if rotors were worn more than half their lives, I'd get the Brembo kit, which retains the stock CCM calipers. I'm pretty sure I won't have to touch the brakes based on having no visible wear in 9K miles, and I'm sure the next owner won't have to either... with typical Ferrari use. Good day.

 

Stef- I have been talking to the US rep, Tom, from whom I got my brakes, and he says Mov'It is ready to produce CCM rotor and pad replacements (they already do PCCB sets) if they get three orders. The price would be way less than CCM prices and the rotors and pads are far superior to the CCMs. Here is some data from a Porsche racer on longevity. He estimates the pads last up to 3 times as long as the PCCB pads (essentially the same as CCM) and there has been no measurable wear on the Mov'It rotors, which are solid carbon silicon carbide. The PCCBs and CCMs only have a CSC core.

Daniel- They do look small, no? Especially when you have 19" or 20" wheels on your car.

Movit CER brake pad & rotor wear data

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am collecting wear data on Movit CER (carbon ceramic) brakes for the Manufacturer (Movit). Here's an excerpt I thought may be of interest on this thread:

"I finally had to change the first set of front Sport pads on the CER rotors. Here&#8217;s the data:

New pad thickness = 10mm

Use = 19 track days; 2644.8 miles
(Texas World Speedway, 2.9 miles, average = 4x 24-minute track sessions per day, 12 laps per session, 139.2 miles per day)

Thickness remaining on worn Sport pads:
Rear
Right Rear Inner = 7-8mm*
Right Rear Outer = 8-8.5mm*
Left Rear Inner = 8mm
Left Rear Outer = 8-9mm*

Front
Right Front Inner = 5-6mm*
Right Front Outer = 5-6mm*
Left Front Inner = 5-6mm*
Left Front Outer = 6-7mm*

*pads were tapered at leading edge

No measurable wear on rotors. I replaced the front pads. I anticipate another 2500 miles of track use from the rear pads. Front Sport pad wear has been significantly better than PCCB pad, which averaged 6 track days per set "

CER rotors are 350mm x 34mm front; 350mm x 28mm rear. Car is 3500 pounds (Porsche 996 Turbo, full wet w/driver). CER rotors are made from same carbon-ceramic material as Ferrari and Porsche PCCB rotors; Panox from Carbon SGL in Germany. But the construction method is different; hence the better wear characteristics.

As we all know, the difference in rotor construction is vastly different, with the Mov'it rotors a homogeneous carbon silicon carbide solid.

ELP- There are different algorithms for the steel and CCM brakes for the ABS. There are also wear/heatload algorithms for the CCM brakes. The algorithms for both are in an 8 Mb chip in the instrument panel. The SD3 allows you to select steel or CCM brakes.

With street use only, your CCMs will likely never wear out. At most, way down the line, you might have to replace a set of pads.

Taz
Terry Phillips