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Saving my Dino

Discussion in '206/246' started by SCantera, Mar 18, 2011.

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  1. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    Aug 4, 2004
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    Living Falls NC
    #1 SCantera, Mar 18, 2011
    After owning various Ferraris over the past 35 yrs I have always favored the V12s. Owned a couple of new 8s too. Currently have a 575 SA and 330 GTC which to me are keepers. Also in the garage is a show quality Euro 246 GTS. For some reason I just don't connect with the Dino. Yes, handling is go kart like, it makes all the right sounds and it is the best looking design of any Ferrari I have ever owned. But the engine just does not do it for me.

    So I have a couple of options. One is to use the Dino as trade toward 3 cars on my most wanted list......a carb BB, an F40 and [Enzo forgive me] a Ford GT. The Dino would just be a down payment on an F40. Or it would cover 60% of a combined BB and GT cost. But the numbers are only part of the issue.

    I have considered the concept of finding an engine from a Fiat Dino, sending it off to Motion Products [or other reputable expert shop] for a complete re-build including compression boost, port/polishing and hotter cams. A rep from MPC said that 240 hp is "doable". One question.......is that figure realistic? Has anyone out there made modifications to the 2.4 to significantly increase the hp and torque? I am not all that excited about being the pioneer in upgrading to a stronger engine. I would also surmise there are other issues......cooling for example that need to be taken into account.

    Naturally I would keep the original numbers matching engine for the next caretaker. But I just want to explore the alternatives before I make any ultimate decisions on whether to save my Dino long term. Any thoughts or experiences about boosting the output of this engine would be appreciated.
     
  2. Turtle55

    Turtle55 Rookie

    May 31, 2008
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    #2 Turtle55, Mar 18, 2011
    Keep dino as is, sell and buy Ford GT- drive it and have some fun.
     
  3. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

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    #3 Tifosi15, Mar 18, 2011
    Just to throw it out there, if the Dino didn't quite do it for you what about a Lancia Stratos? That would be quite a lively, albeit somewhat scary, alternative. Happy searches
     
  4. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

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    #4 S Brake, Mar 18, 2011
    I vote for the F40.
     
  5. 500tr

    500tr Formula 3

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    Volkmar Spielmann
    #5 500tr, Mar 18, 2011
    If you sell your Dino, let me know ;-)
     
  6. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #6 synchro, Mar 18, 2011
    I believe UroTrashy's car was mod'ed with high compression pistons, but from your short message it doesn't seem you are seeking the balance that is one of the Dino's best traits but rather you're looking for sure fire, seat in the pants sensation of power. Dino folks are a bit strict about modifications and they generally will not translate into an increase in sales price when you go to sell it. Quite possibly the opposite.

    A friend just bought an injected BB for $100k, Ford GTs start at the $130 mark and a show quality GTS would probably command $175k+ so I think you are well above that 60% figure.


    Kurt, I agree and was also looking at these for a while. I found several with salvage titles after front end accidents which tells me that it is a lot of the car but can also get drivers in trouble...
    Ford GTs did have a slight dip in their prices at the 2 year mark but are holding up very well now.
     
  7. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    #7 SCantera, Mar 18, 2011
    I am not looking for a huge boost in hp...after all.....it is a small V-6. And I would never consider turbo or supercharging for a big ramp up. But it seems to me that another 40 hp would make a pretty big difference for this little sport-a-bout. I was wondering if there were others that went down this road and what they thought of the hp increase with respect to the performance.

    As far as originality and maintaining value my thought was to find a Fiat Dino engine to modify while keeping the original numbers matching engine stock. I agree about your statement that a number of Dino folks are very adamant about originality. So I am sensitive to what the community wants.

    I am about driving these cars. I made modifications to my 330 GTC to fix the weak points....electrical, cooling, and A/C. Everything is bolt on bolt off stuff that does not deter from the value of the car since all the original parts are well kept and will stay with the car. Now I have a GTC that is so good I drive it anywhere. I am not into garage queens. Even my SA is approaching 10k miles and will get driven thousands more by me. I don't keep these cars for $$ appreciation...... the appreciation comes from the fun of driving the snot out of them.

    Over the years I have had different cars that I would decide whether they were keepers or not. Some that were not include a new 360, 355, Queen, [2] C/4s, 550 and 575. I had a carbed BB that I never should have let go [now owned by a fellow FChatter]. I love Maranellos and now have my fav in the SA. And the 330 is one of the most functional and well balanced vintage Ferraris ever built. They will remain in my garage and on the road for a long time.

    The dilemma is whether improving [what I perceive as] the weakness in the Dino will turn the car into a keeper. Right now it does not match the fun or experience of either the SA or GTC. I know BBs well and will get one sooner or later. A good friend of mine just acquired a Ford GT so I will get some seat time in his car. And the F40........every owner I have ever talked to proclaims how much of a thrill it is to drive......music to my ears.

    Thank you all for expressing your thoughts on the Dino and its potential replacements.
     
  8. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #8 racerboy9, Mar 18, 2011
    My Dino GT modded engine puts out 252hp on the dyno. All the usual hot rod tricks. Porting, higher compression pistons, re-profiled cams, 44DCNF carbs, etc yet looks totally stock. The Fiat Dino block can is slightly different than the Ferrari Dino block in some minor areas but would be easy to convert.
     
  9. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    #9 need4speed, Mar 18, 2011
  10. snowric

    snowric Karting

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    #10 snowric, Mar 19, 2011
    DearRacerboy,

    How does your higher power output translate into performance ? 252 looks like the level that Stratos 2v engines were tuned to. A 60hp increase in power c 33% should reduce the 0-60 sprint significantly from the tested c 7s level ? Probably to the Daytona level (tested c 6 secs).

    Snowy
     
  11. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

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    #11 mikeyr, Mar 19, 2011
    I vote for not sacrificing yet another FIAT for its motor, too many have already been sacrificed.

    Unless you are talking FIAT Dino Coupe...then its ok :)
     
  12. Cobraownr

    Cobraownr Formula Junior
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    #12 Cobraownr, Mar 20, 2011
    I've had similar thoughts to Steve's over the years, but from the opposite direction. After selling my 246 GTS 06422 in the mid-1970s to buy an original Ford GT40, I've often thought about getting back into one, as it is a special car. However, the lack of OOMPH always bugged me. I know, a fixation on all out grunt is shallow and one dimensional, but that is not my only criterion, so I will stand convicted only to some extent. However, it is important enough to me that I have not become a Dino owner again. Once I had the resources to get back into Ferraris, I went with the V12s (365 GTC, Daytona) and have been very pleased.

    As Steve has, I wondered about goosing the motor in a Dino for more power, but never pursued that to figure out details. His idea of doing so with a second motor certainly would be the way to go about that. In the end, though, the cost and effort of this will not result in a car with the kind of performance that the F40 and Ford GT have. They are in a completely different league.

    If the end result of the engine work is a Dino with Boxer-type performance, I would skip all that and just buy a Boxer. I had a brief drive in a 512 BBi a few months ago and was quite pleased. My thought was that it felt like a Dino, but with more power, which seems to be Steve's goal. The BBi certainly provided some straight line thrills. I'm guessing the 365 BB would be even slicker in that regard. Selling the Dino would be a difficult move, but they are not that rare, so finding another one if there is a change of heart would be straightforward. I drove a Stratos a few months ago and would not want one as a Dino replacement. Yes, it is quicker than the Dino, but also much cruder and rawer in virtually every respect, and is not a car that I would use as I would the Dino. The Boxer is.

    While I have not driven an F40, so cannot give a personal opinion about it, I have read many articles about it and know the specs and characteristics pretty well. I do own a GTX1, a custom roadster version of the Ford GT and have had plenty of seat time in it. As I said above, it is in an entirely different league from a faster Dino, as the F40 would be too. Now, I have to admit that I am totally in the tank for the Ford GT. When Ford announced the car in 2003, I wondered what the point was, as it wasn't expanding the technology envelope with any paddle shifters, carbon fiber chassis, etc. It was a throw back. Bleah. And then I saw one, and drove it, and I got it. Even after owning an original GT40, I was stunned by the Ford GT. I won't get into a long ecomium on the Ford, other than to say that the power is simply staggering to me--and that assessment comes from a background of 40 years of owning original 289 and 427 Cobras, no slouches in the pavement-ripping department--and that it is a "real" car in that it is comfortable and suitable for long drives and multi-day events, with some minor (to me) concessions (luggage space, for example).

    My $0.02 suggestion to Steve is to sell the Dino, forget the F40, buy a Boxer and Ford GT, and see if the Dino grinds enough in his head to warrant getting back into one.
     
  13. SCantera

    SCantera F1 Veteran
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    #13 SCantera, Mar 20, 2011
    Don,

    Thank you for the in depth reply concerning my Dino dilemma. I agree that even dropping in a modified 2.4 won't make it Boxer-like. After all it is missing the other 6 cylinders. From a driving standpoint I was not thinking I could make it a different car....just a better Dino. When I get into spirited driving rowing the gears and heel toeing while attacking the twisties the right pedal can play a big part in the handling if there is enough torque to be put down. This is where the Dino falls a bit short.

    Yesterday at Sebring I spent some time w/ a couple of other old timer Dino owners. Both were of the mind to leave well enough alone. And they both recommended I jettison the car if I don't adapt to the car as designed. Overall this seems to be the consensus opinion. However there were a couple of owners out there that have done the extensive mods and one has contacted me about providing a hotter engine and other performance parts. He has a sound bite of his car going through the gears at or near redline.....that is what a Dino should sound like. Intriguing concept...

    I owned a BB512 for fifteen years. And I will definitely get another carbed Boxer. The Ford GT has me interested for the very reasons you pointed out. Excellent performance, modern comforts with a timeless and beautiful design. This week I will get out in my friend's GT for a test drive. He has a gorgeous white/blue immaculate car.

    So maybe the best idea would be to drop the F40 concept.....leave the Dino alone and acquire a BB and FoMoGT. In my opinion both the BB and GT are a lot of car for an excellent value. And all are drivable cars.

    Now how to conceal this from my better half...........hhhmmmm
     
  14. David Jarrett

    David Jarrett Karting

    Sep 21, 2006
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    #14 David Jarrett, Mar 23, 2011
    Oh no, the Dino Coupe has to be one of the prettiest cars ever made (show me an angle it doesn't work from?)

    As a 308 GT4 owner I envy the OP's dilemma, but my limited experience of boosting power in my old Lotus Elan and a AR 156 is that you destroy as much as you gain somehow.
     
  15. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
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    #15 Hawkeye, Mar 23, 2011
    The BB512 and Ford GT is a winning combination! Do lot's of research on any particular Ford GT. Good luck, sounds like a fun summer!
     
  16. GrayTA

    GrayTA F1 World Champ
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    #16 GrayTA, Mar 23, 2011
    Perhaps a dumb question to throw out here, but could you possibly get a 308 engine and make it fit??

    Going with either an early carbed car (or converting one to early specs) or getting a QV engine would get you to the 240hp mark (stock rated hp). You would not be modding an original Dino engine and 308 motors are relatively easy to find. There are a lot of modded 308 engines out there which can make even more hp if you wanted to do that. I would imagine the torque gain would be pretty good too.

    Yeah, I know the engine is larger, but I think the architecture is at least similiar. It may be as easy as a stab it in and go, but I definitely defer to someone else who is a subject matter expert.

    Now, I am going to run and hide and wait for responses....





    PDG
     
  17. champtc

    champtc Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2004
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    #17 champtc, Mar 23, 2011
    I know a guy that did that for a customer in the midwest...
     

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