Varese - Campo dei Fiori 1951 unknown Ferrari | FerrariChat
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Varese - Campo dei Fiori 1951 unknown Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by mcwidow70, Mar 28, 2011.

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  1. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

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    #1 mcwidow70, Mar 28, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2011
    I have just bought a copy of the following book "Varese - Campo dei Fiori, una città in corsa" and I have found this interesting picture addressed as Stagnoli-Ferrari winner of 1951 edition (24/06/1951).

    [​IMG]
    copyright Era Edizioni

    Stagnoli starting from Coppa Adriatica 1950 (20/08) raced the 018M with new Zagato chassis (see also the following thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267346)

    The car on the posted pic it isn't clearly the 018M, and even if it looks like a 166sc I am not able to see front Ferrari logo.
    Looking to the front grid it could be:
    006I
    a unknow car with the old 012I body modified by closing air inlet on top of front grid ( the 012I was modified on early 1950 by Fontana)
    001S rebodied after crash during 1951 Giro di Sicilia (31/3-01/4 1951)

    Any idea?
     
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #2 Aardy, Mar 28, 2011
    I would say your pic is 012I but rather in 1949 with Bracco...
     
  3. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

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    #3 mcwidow70, Mar 28, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2011
    As far as I Know the first edition after 2WW was held in 1950, but with no sport cars registered.
    Furthermore on 1949 the 012I front was different with addition air inlet

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #4 Aardy, Mar 28, 2011
    The car pictured IS 012I in 1949.

    I think your pic shows Bracco at Varese-Brinzio hillclimb in june 1949.

    BTW, your "addition air inlet" was done AFTER the race of your pic...
     
  5. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    #5 Boudewijn, Mar 28, 2011
    Stagnoli only drove #0018M between 1949 and 1951. I also think the photo shows 012I with Bracco. In the book "Piloti Biellesi" on Bracco and Maglioli the Varese-Brinzio HC is called Corsa al Brinzio and was held on May 22 1949.
    The air inlets up front were as far as I have photos first visible at the Aosta-Gran San Bernardo HC in September 1949, but this doesn't say they weren't visible earlier on.
     
  6. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #6 Aardy, Mar 28, 2011
    Hi Boudewijn,

    Yes, of course the car pictured is 012I with Bracco in 1949...

    About the Aosta-Gran San Bernardo Hillclimb date, I have 28 august 1949.
     
  7. Boudewijn

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    #7 Boudewijn, Mar 28, 2011
    Hi Cyril, according to the book "L'Aosta-Gran San Bernardo" by the Acerbi brothers the 1949 edition was held on September 1 1949.
     
  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #8 Aardy, Mar 28, 2011
    Strange. 28 august was exactly one week after the Fasano-Selva hillclimb (21 august) and exactly three weeks before Pontedecimo-Giovi hillclimb (18 september) and four weeks before Biella-Oropa hillclimb (25 september).

    1st september doesn't match with this sequence.
     
  9. Boudewijn

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    #9 Boudewijn, Mar 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You are right, but confusing is the fact they wrote 1 September big and the poster shows August 28.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #10 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    Boudewijn, is there any pic in this book of Palmieri ??

    Thank you very much in advance !!
     
  11. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

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    #11 mcwidow70, Mar 29, 2011
    Thank you for the information that fixes the matter: another mistake found on motorsport historical book and for sure not the last!

    Do anyone know the race number for Varese-Brinzio 1949? Is there any specific book covering this hillclimb?

    GDV
     
  12. Boudewijn

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    #12 Boudewijn, Mar 29, 2011
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    Cyril, indeed this one from 1952 where he finished first on 0154ED.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Aardy

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    #13 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH Boudewijn !! Beautiful pic !!

    In fact, I was searching for a pic of Palmieri's Touring barchetta in 1951 as I have never seen one. Do you have one by chance ?? Thanks again !!
     
  14. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

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    #14 mcwidow70, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
    If the information concerning the air inlets alteration is correct, I am not able to address the following picture


    [​IMG]

    The only hillclimb races I have on late 1949, after Aosta, for the 012I are Pontedecimo-Giovi - 18/9/49 #78 and Vermicino-Rocca di Papa -16/10/49 #50
    According my database on Biella Oropa 1949 (25/9/49) Bracco drove a Maserati A6 GCS
     
  15. Boudewijn

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    #15 Boudewijn, Mar 29, 2011
    Sorry Cyril, I only have 2 photos of Bracco in the Touring Barchetta at Senigallia 1951.
    Just ask and I will show them.
     
  16. Boudewijn

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    #16 Boudewijn, Mar 29, 2011
    I did not say they weren't visible earlier then at Aosta 1949. At Aosta on MY photos they were visible for the first time. In between the Brinzio HC on May 22 and Aosta-Gran San Bernardo 012I was involved in 5 other events of which I only have the race number of the fifth being 140.

    May 26 Como Lieto HC
    June 19 GP Napoli
    June 29 Giro di Umbria
    July 3 Bolzano-Mendola HC
    July 17 Coppa d'Oro delle Dolomiti with racenumber 140 (no photo).

    So this photo of yours may have been taken at one of these or the Biella-Oropa HC on
    September 25 where I did have him with 012I as well, but with indeed a Maserati A6 GCS according to Piloti Biellesi book,
    so I think we could skip this event for 012I.

    Thanks for the input!
     
  17. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

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    #17 mcwidow70, Mar 29, 2011
    I think it is possible also to exclude GP Napoli (the posted pic shows the 012I during a hillclimb race) and Giro Umbria (as far as I know there were driver and co-driver on each car for that event).

    So, in my opinion, the only two possibilities are Como-Lieto and Bolzano Mendola

    GDV
     
  18. Boudewijn

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    #18 Boudewijn, Mar 29, 2011
    Agreed.
     
  19. Aardy

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    #19 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    Bracco in 1951 at Senigallia ?? No, I don't have these pics. Yes, that would be great to see its !! Many thanks in advance Boudewijn !
     
  20. Boudewijn

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    #20 Boudewijn, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Aardy

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    #21 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    FANTASTIC PICS !!!!!!!!!! MANY THANKS Boudewijn !!!!
     
  22. Aardy

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    #22 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    I must add something : the car looks exactly like 0100E !! I'm speechless !!
     
  23. Aardy

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    #23 Aardy, Mar 29, 2011
    But 0102E also had the bump on hood so must be this one...
     
  24. tongascrew

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    #24 tongascrew, Mar 30, 2011
    A few comments for consideration.Originally in 1948 the front fenders were not attached to the body with the cowling. During the winter of 1849/49 the front fenders were modified with the cowlings attaching them to the body. These were first seen at the Giro di Sicilia March 19,1949 but the two cooling slots on the radiater cowling were not added yet or at the following M.M. I have a picture of O12I at the Aosta with #62 which shows the two cooling slots at the top of the radiater cowling. The "1951" picture does not show these but with the modified front fenders so this must be at an earlier event. I am unclear when these were added but it may have been after the crash July 17 at the Coppa Dpolomiti. This was shortly after the car was sold to Bracco on April 22, 1949. Also in addition to the five events listed I also have 012I at Verese-Fiori shortly after the M.M. with Bracco finishing 1 OA. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  25. Boudewijn

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    #25 Boudewijn, Mar 30, 2011
    There was no Varese-Campo dei Fiori HC in 1949. It was held from 1931- 1935 and from 1950-1960.
     
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