The official MP4-12C Thread

I've been reading a bit about the new Lambo Aventador's 'RTM-Lambo' technique for its carbonfibre chassis. Seems quite a bit different from the 12C's process.

Is anybody well versed in this subject and can provide a summary of the differences? Just curious to compare and contrast the two products.

 

What is the Lambo process?


To bring the cost down and increase the speed of production, McLaren’s MonoCell uses a new Resin Transfer Molding (RTM) process that can be more automated. Instead of using labor-intensive prepreg, sheets of dry carbon-fiber cloth are cut into shape and laid out in a 35-ton, 7-piece steel mold. After the tooling closes, resin is injected. For about two hours the entire carbon-fiber tub is subjected to 218 psi of pressure at 167 degrees Fahrenheit. And before the tub comes out of the mold, it spends another two hours curing at about 260 degrees F.

At this point, the unmachined MonoCell is already within 1 mm of design specifications. To ensure even tighter Formula 1-like tolerances of +/- 0.2 to 0.5 mm at the pickup points of the front and rear aluminum crash structures, the tub is sent to a computer-controlled milling machine for finishing touches. Because the RTM process can accommodate complex designs, a single-piece hollow tub incorporating different shapes and attachment points is possible, making the carbon-fiber chassis that much stronger as a single unit. According to McLaren, the MonoCell weighs 165 lb. It is some 25 percent lighter and stiffer than a comparable aluminum chassis.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-report/supercar-tech-analysis-the-relentless-pursuit-of-weight-savings

 

I think the process is pretty much the same in theory. Both are using resin transfer process which is using pre-cut material sheets that is placed in molds, pressed into shapes, and have the resin injected.

RTM is how the Corvette body is made in fiberglass. It's faster and requires a lot less labor than hand lay up.

I think it's more of a use than method that makes them different. Lambo was more interested in making the shape they wanted stronger. So, they used this method to help with the design intent. McLaren was more interested in making the lightest weight structure. It was looking for the lowest weight and best handling.

Here's a pretty good article in the Lambo method:


http://wot.motortrend.com/carbon-fiber-monocoque-revealed-2012-lamborghini-aventador-31749.html

 

Detailed here:

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Lamborghini-Aventador-Monocoque-Chassis.html

There were rumors ahead of the Aventador's launch that the same firm that constructs the 12C's monocell for McLaren (Carbo Tech in Salzburg, Austria) would also be building the Aventador's chassis for Lamborghini but I have yet to see actual confirmation of that.

>8^)
ER

 

It said that the Lambo chassis is made in house by Lambo and uses three methods to make separate components that are then combined to make the entire chassis tub. Two of the methods are inferior to the McLaren RTM process and combine to create a larger structure but it is also twice as heavy. Also, the RTM process they are using is at a low pressure that "doesnt require expensive equipment". Seems like Volkswagen technology to me.


Resin Transfer Moulding (RTM): In this process the carbon fiber mats are preformed and impregnated with an exact amount of resin. Afterwards, they are cured under heat while the part is in the mold. Lamborghini has achieved a major breakthrough by further developmening this method. Using the patented “RTM-Lambo” process, the final mold is no longer a heavy, complex metal piece, but is made instead from lightweight carbon-fiber parts, thus making the manufacturing process faster, more flexible and more efficient.
An additional benefit of the RTM-Lambo process is the low injection pressure that doesn’t require expensive equipment.

Prepreg – The carbon fiber mats used in this method, commonly known as prepreg, are pre-injected by the supplier with a thermosetting liquid resin and must be stored at a low temperature. The mats are then laminated in molds and cured under heat and pressure in an autoclave. Prepreg components are complex to make, but have an extremely high-quality surface finish (Class-A surface quality) and are therefore the preferred option for use in visible locations.

Braiding – These components are manufactured by using RTM technology. This carbon fiber weave technology is derived from the textile industry and used to make tubular components for special applications such as structural roof pillars and rocker panels. The woven components are made by diagonally interweaving the fiber in several layers.

 

I agree. McLaren has purposely tried to avoid anything that resembles Ferrari Red(Rosso Corso or Scuderia). The McLaren Orange is almost yellowish/Orange. The Volcano Orange is a blend of Scuderia and Orange color.

Tough choices - I am still a bit lost on the color choice. A good friend of mine is getting Volcano Orange so I didn't want to do the exact same thing. I was going to go with Ice Silver or Graphite Grey. But I am not enamored by them. I think I am just going to go with the press car combo: McLaren Orange(M.O) with Stealth super light wheels, Orange Calipers, CF side view mirriors. CF interior and stealth package. The rest of the interior is up for debate. Prolly getting IRIS since it seems dumb to buy a $265K car without Nav.

What do you guys think. Anybody seem M.O? Is it too bright? I am not one of those showy guys who wants brigth colors but I feel you realy can't go wrong with THE factory color.

Ritesh.

 

I think that is Volcano Red, my spec below
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Yes; Mclaren Orange is the correct answer.

I think getting the Nav while cool and crazy expensive now will date the car down the road.
Like a 996 with their green nav that was to die for back then just looks goofy today.
Buy a Garmin and send $1000 to your favorite charity instead. Good food for the soul and cheaper.

Interior ?
There is but one and that is black Alcantara.
Perhaps orange stitching to be different.
Accept no substitutes.

Over and out.

 

Great choices...the car looks stunning!

 

Thanks for the Lambo responses, as well as the links. I also noticed that the Lambo's carbon structure includes the roof. Does this pre-suppose that a new moulding and design will be required for a spyder?

 

Very nice- I love the red seat inserts combined with the contrast red stitching. I think that will look great. That is exactly what I wanted to do with orange, but choosing alcantara precluded two-tone seats.

 

Yes, McLaren Orange is the traditional McLaren colour, dating back to Bruce McLaren's racecars in the insane CAN/AM series. I'm assuming all of us here know about that era, but if for some reason you don't it is well worth a history lesson (I recommend a video called Speed Odyssey). I am positive the 12C will look absolutely stunning in this colour and would have specced it myself had I not wanted to keep a somewhat lower profile for this car.

I think Graphite Grey will be nice, but in the end I decided there are a lot of dark grey cars these days. Also, the rest of the option palette doesn't present a ton of ways to create different looks with Graphite Grey. They did choose a very nice shade, though, I think.

Ice Silver is a wild card in my opinion. I was looking for blue calipers to try out with that. But, perhaps with red accents and some CF trim, somebody is going to spec a stunner with Ice Silver. I know at some point I will see one and be like "damn!" In a good way.

The colour I am really surprised is missing is something more closely resembling the McLaren Formula One racecar livery. Perhaps not quite as polished, or whatever, but something in that realm of "chromey" silver. Merc has some really interesting paint choices for the SLS. Thought they might have had a go at it.

 

Just thinking out-loud here, but the polished bare-metal look (namely high-gloss/mica silver) on recent/current McLaren F1 cars is more-so a continuation of the German / M.B. influence (namely, German Int'l motor-sport racing colour is silver / Italy's is red / France's is blue / Britain's is green / Japan's is white / etc) as M.B. was a principle / major shareholder. Now that M.B. has their own team (courtesy of Brawn) as well as being only a partial sponsor/investor as well as just supplying engines (for the time being till 2015) to McLaren, I believe Ron Dixon & company will gradually traverse to another livery as time goes on.

 

that's a good point. I suppose Vodafone has some say in it, too.

 

Yeah but they could at least offer something close to F1 livery!!

 

I made this a while ago and posted it to their Facebook wall as a suggestion.

>8^)
ER
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Nice! That would be an awesome Formula One pace car, too.

 

Some very nice photos of the silver car: http://www.moonlightexpress.net/2010/10/through-ians-lens-mclaren-mp4-12c.html

 

news for today!
mclaren will be sending out a pdf brochure to all customers in the next 2 days,if you guys in the states dont get it im sure lazerblu will download it,as i havent got a clue !
It will be 30 pages long,but the most important bit of info for us is the lateral g
who wants to know???

 

Anybody notice they were rooting for rooting for McLaren yesterday in the F1 race. Since the top 2 positions were sorted I was most interested in the Button Vs. Massa battle. It was quite fun.

I'm glad F1 season has finally begun. I kept trying to point out to my son which car is the Mclaren.

 

yes please!
Do you already know??

 

Would any of the UK guys be willing to send me the Autocar McLaren supplement by post? I've been checking all the news stands here and can't locate it. I'm guessing it was only included for UK/Europe editions of the magazines.

In any case, I would love to have a copy and will gladly reimburse, including postage, if anybody is up for mailing one to me. If so, please Private Message me.. many thanks.

 

yes ,sorry for the tease,the official lateral g in their electronic brochure is??


1.7 ,exactly 25% more than the 458 at 1.35 g,and the most for any road car ever on road tyres. apart from the likes of the caparo T1

 

Seriously impressive. Assuming that is with Corsa tires?

 

This is not just impressive. It's positively insane. This is race car territory. Now, the crazy Dunsfold/Nordschleife lap times start to make a bit more sense.