Trials, Tribulations, Rants & Raves on my headers, CATS and muffler install... | FerrariChat

Trials, Tribulations, Rants & Raves on my headers, CATS and muffler install...

Discussion in '360/430' started by mr_bock, Apr 3, 2011.

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  1. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    #1 mr_bock, Apr 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I thought to take a proactive approach to the problems with CATS disintegrating, mufflers losing its insulation (white powder). Getting a sweeter sound would also be an added bonus. I was able to use my new garage, with lift, to do the work. It took longer than what I expected and I would not want to do this again.

    I searched F-Chat for options and prices, etc. I ended up with headers from Agency Power purchased through Vivid Racing, high flow CATS from Kinetix Racing. I was going to keep the OEM muffler, but while removing it, the mounting brackets bent off as there were massive cracks around the welds. Vivid Racing stepped up with a set of Fab Speed muffler and tips for the same price of the cheaper one I was looking at. They were also able to deliver it just a few days.

    Removing the OEM system was a bit of a pain. Seats, rear interior panels had to be removed to access the panel to the front of the engine. Getting the old headers off was a very time consuming. While I was 'in there' I replaced the top transmission mount. I bought Hill Engineering mount and Ricambi tool for removal/installation. The aluminum brace over the engine had to be unbolted and lifted up to access the mount. The old isolator had tears in the rubber. I also wrenched on many bolts back there as many were not real tight.

    Then the issues started. The new headers did not slide onto the studs!!! After looking close, I found that the two outboard studs (each end) needed clearance. I had to file the two holes outward for a total of approx. .06". The headers were JetHot coated so I thought to blow all pipes and ports out. Here I found one of the main SAI pipe was not drilled through to the pipe that feeds all of the individual ports!!!!! Had I just installed the header, I am sure there would be issues that would be hard to figure out. A call to Agency Power to bring this to their attention was treated like I was crazy and their products are perfect. Also close inspection of the welds show that there was 'burn thru' and weld beads that look poorly done. Agency Power is NOT recommended by me. A sharp contrast with the welds on the CATS and muffler. Had I known and seen the sale, I would have gone with the FabSpeed headers!!!!

    Installing the passenger side headers took me about six hours!!! Getting the nuts stared is very difficult. Using an open end wrench to turn the nut a fraction, flipping the wrench and turn a little more, flipping, turning, flipping.... The upper nuts required me to lie on top of the engine, use a mirror and again the open end wrench, flipping, turning, flipping, turning... What a PITA!!!! The driver side was way better. The rest of the install went as expected. I got to a point where I could take the car on the road (less the rear bumper), but I wanted to feel and hear how this is turning out. I was not disappointed!!! The butt-o-meter felt like a smoother, faster acceleration and the sound is pleasing F1 sort of wail.

    The pix here are: the headers as received, looking down the main SAI fitting where I had to drill through, header flange where I had to file the hole to a slot, here you can see how the stud fits to the flange, looking down to the header installed, the high flow CATS installed, rear view less the bumper.

    I can't imagine what a shop would have charged to do all of this on an hourly rate. Also all of things that I found and fixed that might have been missed.

    I suppose as I drive the car more, I will forget how bad this was and how much worst this could have been if I had to remove all because of the SAI issue.

    Now I will be looking forward to dropping the engine on my 993 to do a new clutch/flywheel upgrade.
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  2. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Nice work there Mr Bock and thanks for sharing.

    I've no doubt those header bolts are a bugger of a job to do but well done for persevering!
     
  3. Alex@fabspeed

    Alex@fabspeed Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2006
    401
    Fort Washington, PA
     
  4. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
     
  5. Alex@fabspeed

    Alex@fabspeed Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2006
    401
    Fort Washington, PA
     
  6. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
     
  7. JPN800

    JPN800 Karting

    Apr 12, 2010
    157
    New York
    Full Name:
    JP
    Nice work, Put up a sound clip when you get a chance.
     
  8. m3mike

    m3mike Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2006
    464
    Knoxville, TN
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You were happy with the Kinetix cats?
     
  9. chris360hawks

    chris360hawks Formula Junior

    May 29, 2007
    477
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Chris Hard
    You would think that Agency Power would of stepped up to the plate and helped you solve the problem. Goes to show there are better companies, like Fabspeed around.
     
  10. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,678
    Silicon Valley
    Maybe you needed a wrench like one of these.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JzRwwzdmq4[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwppKR3i8YY&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/ame]
     
  11. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    There is absolutly no and I repeat, no space to wrap anything around the nut because the header tube is so close. Only an open end wrench can be used.

    Even the head of the open end ratchet to too large.
     
  12. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    You would think. They did not say sorry for any inconvience and we will do 100% inspection, thanks.... nothing, nada, zip. I hope this thread turns business away from them.

    Agency Power lacks proper customer relations...

    However-
    The high flow CATS from Kinetix are beautiful, highly polished, came well packed, caps on all openings, First Class in my book!!!!
     
  13. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    It will be a while until I can do this... I am out on travel, need to get my new Pilot Sport II's mounted/balanced, etc... When all comes together, I will see if a recording can be made.

    Thanks for asking.
     
  14. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    I would not consider Agency Power for any product on any of my cars. I have a bad experience with their exhaust on my 2004 GT3, wasted money.

    For Ferrari headers: FabSpeed or Capristo.
     
  15. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2008
    4,442
    Taxing Jersey

    All the companies have had their issues with their products and lack to resolve the issue. Also, there are many happy customers from the same companies so what is one to do.

    There are only a few who makes products for our cars.
     
  16. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    I installed AP headers on my car. I have to be honest with you, I had to re-drill all the holes so it can slice into the studs. I was kind of piss but I though that everyone can make a mistake. After several hours I did install it and almost loose one finger and a couple of nails not mention all the skin I loss!

    The results are great! Great response and an awesome sound.
    AP would not be perfect for anyone who is not familiar to DIY jobs but for the cost and some small expirience you can end up with a great result. Anyway the header upgrade is for sound and performance not for look or an easy installation and AP comply with the first two.

    Just my two cents!
     
  17. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    A couple of things.

    (1). You can use a 1/4 drive 13mm socket to get to all the nuts. Will need a combination of swivel extensions and 1/4 breaker bar. Using an open ended wrench increases the possibility of a stripped nut, which will cause a bigger headache and delay. I was able to use this method to get to all the bolts, maybe my Snap-on sockets are thin walled so they fit...

    (2). Not sure why everyone is laying on top of the engine. You can get to all the bolts from below, and through the rear wheel well opening and through the cabin access
     
  18. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    #18 Ingpr, Apr 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    1+
    I dont know how you can work from the top of the engine!
    Here is a picture of what I did to be comfortable from the bottom of the car.
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  19. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    With the Agency Power headers, the tubes are so close to the studs and the bends start quickly that the edge of the hex nut almost touch the tube. Some of the nuts had to be started way before the header flange came in contact with the engine head. Once the flange was up to the head, there was NO ROOM to slip a socket over the nut, much less have a universal and extension. By the way, Agency Power said their mechanics have to do the open end wrench and flipping to do the install.

    As to reaching all of the nuts from below... forget about it, the tubes are in the way!!! I have been wrenching for almost 50 years and know many work arounds, but this was a challange. I am glad they are now on, but I hope I never have to take them off!!!!!!
     
  20. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    Amen to that!!
    I hope never have to change the gaskets or the header itself!
     
  21. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    From my experience the hardest part was to wiggle the factory headers out once the bolts have been removed. For awhile I almost thought about taking the engine out of the car to get the headers out.... :p
     
  22. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

    Oct 27, 2006
    1,373
    FL full time
    I think Vivid Racing suggested lift/tilt the engine and transmission some to get the little extra space needed. I used a transmission jack and a block of wood to do this. The old stuff is huge and heavy.

    I now wish I had taken the time to document all of this, but alas, I didn't.
     
  23. dbl

    dbl Rookie

    Nov 10, 2010
    46
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Smoking Aces
    I'm very happy to see people posting about this kind of stuff bad custom Sev. is just that bed.
    I was going to buy the Agency Power header as my next upgrade and at the cost of heads and at the cost to put them on everything need to go smooth. So that being said I will be calling fabspeed I guess. If you read all the posts about this it's not just this one guy having problems.
    Thanks for taking the time to write it.
     

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