I don't understand vintage racing

zactly..vintage racing in a nutshell.

 

Fellas, I've held my tongue so far and must post an abbreviated response because I'm thrashing to get ready for another (what else?) vintage race weekend!

I respect the dues and considerable experience (as well as working on many of these cars when they were NEW) of Brian, appreciate and value that the sanctions for contact are greater than in other forms of racing, and acknowledge that there is a much wider range of driver EXPERIENCE and MOTIVATION in vintage racing, but a majority of you guys (many of you, friends of mine) are full of $h!t!

Racing is racing. At least at the front. In any venue. And it's gotten WAY more competitive over the last decade... Just like everything else.

When I go to Lime Rock on Labor Day and qualify on the second row (ahead of Joel Finn, racing for fifty years this year and LeMans class winner Duncan Dayton AT HIS HOME TRACK in their 285 bhp Chevrons) of the 2-liter sports car race with less than half the horsepower in my twenty-seven year old Tiga SC Sports 2000, I drive no differently than I do when setting two lap records (one at Thunderbolt that lasted TWO YEARS ahead of the current, reigning SCCA RunOffs Sports 2000 National Champion) and winning in a straight fight over the 2009 SCCA RunOffs pole winner for the same class in a "vintage" Lola at the Louella Cook Double National at Roebling Road. I don't touch (at least not more than paint) in either venue. Oh, and my fast lap was three-tenths ahead of the 2010 National Champion's performance three weeks earlier at the same track (Lime Rock). In a vintage car...

When I go into the Keyhole at Mid-Ohio with six-time SCCA National Champion Kent Prather (who's not afraid of any contact) on the outside and two-time SCCA National Champion Vic Skirmants on the inside in my Fiat 124 Spider (which with slick tires in SCCA-legal F PRoduction trim won SCCA NATIONALS), and yes, I'm in the MIDDLE of these guys, we are looking at each other, laughing our a$$es off and enjoying every minute of our "vintage racing."

When can I coach a respected vintage racer who happens to be one of the largest racing tire dealers in the country to post a faster lap and outqualify BOBBY RAHAL in an IDENTICAL Brabham BT-29 at Road Atlanta, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're vintage RACING, not VINTAGE racing...

Are there duffers out there? Sure, a bunch. The fundamental principal of vintage racing is to provide a place for anyone with an interesting older car that is not patently unsafe (both the driver and the car) to run it. That's why you see what you see.

When Bill Adam and Andy Wallace drive an "obsolete" Audi R8 at Sebring and get into a knock-down, drag 'em out battle with George Robinson and Wally Dallenbach, Jr. in a Riley & Scott Mk III, beating them by a few seconds after two hours of racing, that was an enduro that was not hard to follow.

I have seen former SCCA National Champion Peter Sachs drive the pee out of a Series II 250 GTO, I've seen SCCA Divisional Champion Ron Finger do the same in a Series I car. There are numerous fantastic YouTube videos of talented drivers capable of winning races at the highest amateur levels and in more than a few professional venues driving and RACING the wheels off of these rare and unusual cars.

I vintage race because I enjoy the people and enjoy the cars. I value most the friendships I've made at the track, my whole life is the track for goodness' sake. Vintage is a great place to find that community, that cameraderie. It's what SCCA (and F1 in the days of Brian) USED TO BE.

Of course, your mileage may vary. This is a great country. Pay your money and take your choice. Just don't get in my way at the next vintage race!

 

And kid's dig the cars!Always great to have kids take to racing ..... of any kind.
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Killer pics!

 

It's like asking a 50 year old why they run a marathon. To push themselves. To go faster than before. To beat those in their class. You are racing because you love to push the car to the extent you can and compete against others. Plus the fans love you for it because they love watching all the cars run. It makes me think of the Shell commercial with the Ferrari F1 cars. As cool as it is to watch them all run, how much more fun it would be to drive them on a track if you could!

 

Thanks! I have many from the march SVRA and the october HSR races , most without the kid! He really get's into it , from having a name like "Indy" and having racecars around the house. No doubt cars with number's excite the little guy , when he see's them either on tv,in person or even a t shirt he screams RACECAR! LOL

 

Is he in the middle of shouting: "YYYEEEAAAHHH!!!" in pictures 2 and 3?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

+1, I always take time and talk to people, especially the kids.

I'm not knocking the vintage scene, but it is really for the participants more then anything. As mentioned, my background was when a lot of these were new but I don't get in to the 'go-faster' drivers. Race them the way they were, drive appropriately. Makes me laugh when guys turn up and unload scales and all sorts, geez, give me a break!! the speed as mentioned is in the preparation of both driver and vehicle. Thanks to driver coaches like Peter, most drivers have a fun time safely.

 

I'm in the camp of getting "vintage racing". I started going to Monterey Historics in the early 90s; I was in my early 20s at that time. While I tend to look forward instead of look backwards in general, I still appreciate watching old race cars getting flogged around the track - some more aggressively than others. To me, it's about the history of the cars as well as the feel of grassroots/laid back racing.

I've been in the professional racing industry; after a couple of years, the level of politics and "bending" the rules grew tiresome on me. The lower level of vintage racing and more fun/relaxed environment was a welcomed perspective as it kept me grounded on why I enjoy racing.

Having said this, over the years, I've been disappointed at times with the level of money spent by some vintage racers to "bend" the rules just so they can run closer towards the front. In this aspect, I fail to see the point.

Lastly, as some folks have mentioned, I'd like to see newer cars i.e. late 70s and 80s cars get more vintage racing venues.

 

Go to a HSR event , I see car's there that could still with very small updating be competitive in the privateer ranks of pro racing.
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Ditto to "no racing is cheap"

It can be challenging to keep a Kart in competitive form !!!

G

 

Everyone should make themselves happy.

I do.

Personally if I had to hit hard I'd much rather be in this one of mine vs another one of mine
which I only drive in exhibitions.
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The Monterey Historics and the Coronado 'Speed Week' races here in San Diego got me hooked as well. As a spectator, to me who wins isn't usually terribly important, but seeing the cars driven like they were meant to be is really something.

The competition may be faster and more aggressive now, but I admire these guys for the skill required to pilot these cars with no traction control or other computers helping. It's kind of like using a three-pedal manual gearbox versus paddles -- why go back to that yestertech? But it's cool anyway.

Mike Sweeney at Coronado a few years back in his 356:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gbdh3bB_J4[/ame]

Also an RS60 the same day (gets interesting at ~6 min):
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm_KOkxxI-E[/ame]

 

Gotta love a several million dollar grid (Coronado also)...and the smell of race gas
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I do love how your definition of easy exhibition driving includes power-sliding around the corner.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Nice photos!! Yours (photography)?

 

The photos yes...the cars...only if I ever win the lotto...
Here's some from Monterey from a couple of years ago...not an F cars but still have nice lines.
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While Procoach is correct when he speaks of his class I think when you get the older smaller displacement classes the testosterone level is reduced.
There is no single reason why people go vintage racing.

My attitude is best summed up by the saying "its better to travel well than to arrive".
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Here could be your competition for the Blue car.....
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I was there for the Porsche "featured marque" event. First time I had ever heard 917s in action. Pure magic.

I won't inflict my photos on anyone...

 

the 917 is the car i consider to be the most awesome machine ever to grace the grid!!

 

i was there that year as well. but, several million will only get you the birdcage.

for the aston and d type...you will need to add several million more

 

I also agree that often it may be the only time someone might see/hear/smell those amazing cars from years past. If you ever get to see the pre war Auto Unions you'll know what I mean......

 

Bingo!

 

With the exception of group C & old F1 cars, I wouldn't choose to do it myself either, I'd rather race something modern.

Watching is a different story though. The sounds of those cars are amazing.