GTO: available if you ask?

As John Lennon once said, "Give Peace a Chance." We all love Ferrari's, we all love to debate different aspects of the current value, availability, future value, relative value, etc., etc. But this is getting a little over the top.

 

agreed. but if we didnt go over the top we'd all just drive BMW's!

 

Just a quick FYI, Jeff in Texas is real, has the cars he Say's he has and was a real buyer for the car i was told was available to us. But like Jeff said, everyone Say's they have them but then they vanish. I had seen and touched the car i offered, was told it was ours to sell, only for the owner to sell it to someone ( which is his prerogative i guess) else without telling me. I'm sorry i got Jeff all excited as i hate to let people down. But I spoke to Jeff twice today and he is a gentleman and i will defend his integrity on this board to anyone that questions it. Sorry again Jeff.

 

no worries

Fusion = class act

Look, perhaps this really has gotten a bit out-of-control. I fully understand that the Ferrari marketplace is absolutely littered with cars that are "supposedly available", only to find out that something is amiss ... car already sold, mysterious ownership history, brave broker who was never authorized to offer in the first place, who knows? ... and this is CERTAINLY nothing new with the (wonderful) 599 GTO !!!

My only message here is worth repeating : please don't use this same old "rumor mill" (about the supposed availability of certain Ferrari's) to support a position that the 599 GTO is "nothing special". The car is DAMN special ... and it's NOT easily found.

fair enough?

 

Well Said! .......+1

 

Even hard to get cars are usually available somewhere in the US. In the past I found two cars that were being sold over sticker readily available at dealerships for MSRP. If you want to investigate, just make some phone calls. One was a 996 turbo in 2001. Cars were "sold out" and I was able top track down two, one of which my uncle purchased. The second was a Mini Cooper S when they were being sold for $5-10k over. I know that these are not in the same league, but the do follow the same opverpricing model.

Just a few weeks ago I called Algar to inquire about the GTO that they had in their showroom (already sold) and while on the phone the salesman said that they had a red/tan 458 available for delivery this month. Of course he could have been saying that just to get me in the showroom, but i doubt it in this market. I have worked in the car business for a long time and have learned that there is always at least one hard to find car that is available somewhere, you just have to make some phone calls.

 

werewolf,
I can get you a GTO. Send me an email:
I'm from Austria, Europe.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best regards.

 

True.

 

I don't think anyone doubts the fact that since it is so new and limited it is tough to get at this time. This was the same with the Cali, the 16m,Scud,Stradale etc. Most new Ferraris that hit the market especially a special edition take a little time before they start popping up in numbers. I think the only question is weather it will go the same way as the 16m,Scuds etc. where everyone said the same thing about collectability or if they will achieve instant collector status and raising values like the Enzo,F50,F40. Personally I think the only newer ferraris that will actually go up in value are the actual super cars, not the tweaked production cars. Doesn't mean it isn't a great car and others can speculate the opposite. The market will speak and we will know before too long.

 

So you are saying the 599 GTO is a "tweaked production car" ?

 

Ditto...And ditto again.

As I've said numerous times, the world of chat, even Ferrari, is littered with supposed experts whose expertise is limited to rumour, re post of rumour and little knowledge besides how to (sometimes) type on a keyboard.

The world of reality is an owner of a 288 GTO and 599 GTO (re: werewolf)...and his fellow owners, all of which can open their garage whenever they wish, turn the key and drive for as long as they wish to do so...

Mutts with no listed profile, no personal knowledge of the cars of which they speak, and spend their time making outlandish statements about long time members, are simply not worth the time it takes to answer...

 

It is. No different than the Murcie sv, a limited version of a great production car before the debut of a new model. I don't know why that's such a bad thing.

 

others are of the same view. the 599 gto is a variant and thus no more special than a 360cs, scud or 16m.

 

Lone, do you believe at the predecessor GTOs would be worth what they are today without the GTO badge?

 

good question. not sure.
i think all modern front engined F-cars depreciate. hard. i own a 599, i know about that one! a few notable exceptions, like the predecessor GTO. but those were made over 40 years ago. and it was the racing heritage that made them special. look what happened to the 550 Barchetta, 550 Superamerica? both very limited and much hyped. cant give them away today. maybe in another 30 years they'll be back... the cars from the '60;s are special in part because they occupy a unique period in time. a time when street cars were truly race cars, and the men were men, etc....and not because they perform a certain way, etc. all performance is eclipsed, and is ultimately irrelevant from a collectors viewpoint...
And besides i am not a fan of collector, or classic cars. to me the machine is meant to be driven, and hard. old cars suck to drive, and they break down and they're dangerous. its not art. its a machine. you all know what Enzo himself said when asked which was his favorite Ferrari, right? the next one!

 

I agree with your examples of the recent hyped and then quickly depreciating cars. Just not sure if the GTO slogan will differentiate it from the other recents. Having driven in a GTO and owning a GTB with HGTE package, I found the cars were very different. A totally different feeling in the cockpit. A feeling that the surroundings were made for you to drive it and drive it hard. Even in my 599, I love it but don't feel one with the car. In my 458, I feel it's amazingly technologically advanced, but I know it will be a relative bore when the next model is released. I owned 2 Scuds. While they were clearly leaps and bounds above the 430, they still felt connected. I owned 2 CSs. I felt the same. In the GTO, there was a clear disparity between my HGTE and the GTO. It truly felt like the car finally had a meaning.

The price point might also allow it to be differentiated from a depreciation standpoint. The scud was a $300k car. The GTO is a Half mill. There's a major difference in that price point. Those who own them may keep them since it's one of many in the stable. The typical scud owner and CS owner only owned or own that one car. They're more apt to part with it when something better crosses their palate.

Who's to say for sure. Napolis and Rifle can make the depreciation assumption sound so mundane and definite. The rest of us can have Fun arguing and bickering about it.

One thing for sure. Those who are taking these conversations as a personal affront should leave the Board. There are much more important things to truly get yourself worked up over

 

I totally agree with you. especially the last sentence!! thats what started my thread in the first place; guys taking their cars way too seriously!

 

Very true.

Ferrari's in business to make money. Heres another example: anyone thats driven a 16M knows it's an insanely high performance vehicle, just an absolute thrill ride. Now everyone can't stop talking about the new 458, and how its a giant leap ahead from the 430. They're quite possibly right! This cycle will never end. Now comes the 599 GTO, and it's arguably the most thrilling car to drive on the planet, but performance wise the car will surely be surpassed. Oh...but it's a GTO. If Ferrari would have built a truly unique car not based on an existing model and labeled it a GTO, then it would stand a much higher chance of being collectable. But for Ferrari, its about profits, and it's MUCH more profitable to take an existing car and brand it differently (GTO) and rake money!

 

+1000

 

guys, let's not forget that the original GTO, the 250 GTO, was also built on an existing model/series: the 250 GT, born in 1954. The first GTO was not not an all-new, stand-alone model for Ferrari.

Furthermore, let's remember that the 288 GTO was not given the homologation moniker ("O") by the Group B sanctioning body. It may have been designed with racing in mind, but Ferrari was already a bit liberal with the GTO moniker in the 288 generation (in the true spirit of the first GTO generation, the factory provides the "GT" and the sanctioning body provides the "O" ... in other words, "designed for racing by the factory" and "approved for racing by the appropriate sanctioning body" are two very different things).

As far as future appreciation/depreciation goes ... who knows?

What I DO know, is this :

1. The original 250 GTO depreciated substantially, before it appreciated ENORMOUSLY.
2. Those who own, and/or have driven, the new 599 GTO understand ... without exception ... that it is something very special indeed (much more akin to the 599XX, for example, than to the 599 GTB)
3. New 599 GTO's are NOT sitting in dealer showrooms, readily available, just for the asking.

 

Great Points Jeff. Looks like this thread is once again getting civil again.

 

thanks Tony

 

The Sultan of Brunei had the line stopped to make four-door 456's.

So asking if a certain thing is available is a matter of the degree of money involved.

Like Clapton's 4512. Or whatever they're calling it.

 

Reading this thread brings back memories of the old days when I was a kid growing up on the fruited plains. Ford - Chevy - Ford - Chevy.

Hell, I even had a buddy whose first name was Ford.

Dale

BTW, I thought they both sucked. But I have enough problems of my own because I rode nothing but the Queen's finest!

 

DrWHo gets it!! you are THE man...that's exactly what i' talking about!