To do with Ferrari and My Dodge

I have a Timex wristwatch I bought at Family Dollar.

It keeps time as well as a Rolex. I put it on my wrist and it fits pretty much the same.

My Timex cost me $5. A Rolex can cost 10's of thousands.

What's the point?

I eat at McDonald's. A big mac, fries, and a coke costs about six bucks. If I go to a fancy steak house, I could easily spend a hundred dollars on a meal.

When I leave McDonald's, I feel full. When I leave the fancy restaurant, I feel just as full.

So, why go to the fancy restaurant? Isn't it just the same?

 

grabs popcorn...

 

So why make the comparison at all then? Why not just put the new springs on the "brick" and go have some fun at the track. Sorry, I just don't see the point of your thread. If you don't see the point of owning a Ferrari then there probably won't be any further intelligent conversation in this thread.

To each his own my friend, to each his own.

 

That makes a little more sense now that you put it that way. No, just because they get the same number on a skid pad doesn't mean they will get around the track in the same time. Lots of other factors come into play too...think weight and inertia for one... well actually two but closely related.

If you are trying to justify spending the money on a Ferrari based on your comparison it won't ever work. The newer cars are much more technologically involved than your '68 Charger.

By the way I kind of agree on principle at least that modern Ferraris really aren't "worth" $300k+ but that is what they charge and people are willing to pay it. They do use a lot of technology in the new cars and that stuff does cost major money to develop and make/implement. Is it all needed? The debate over that will likely rage on for a LONG time to come!

Good luck in the search for your answer, but in the end it still boils down to....you guessed it....to each his own!

By the other way, some pics of your charger would be nice too. Nothing wrong with some good ole fashioned American Muscle!!

 

A skid pad number means pretty much nothing. It's when you get the weight transfer thing going from side to side is where the issue is. That and braking.

That being said you give me 50k$ and I could build a car faster than any production Ferrari around a track or on a drag strip, that is much more reliable, and costs far less to maintain. If this were the case though no one would buy any high end items as you can get the same exact thing cheaper.

 

Doc sums it up... there is much more to it... How much does your brick weigh and how fast can you slow it down? Remember cars didn't start going around a track fast until people developed good brakes.

But I will hereby give you your larger point. You can get basically the same amount of performance for hundreds of thousands less.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AMIoQUCEvY[/ame]

There.. ya happy?

.

 

Every once in a while this question pops up.

Why? I don't know

Who cares about apples and oranges when you have Kiwi or Passion Fruit.

 

If people are willing to pay 300k for something......then it is worth 300k.

 

I might be wrong here but it seems that there is more to handling than G's around a skidpad. A truck might be able to exceed a Ferrari's skidpad #'s and perhaps accelleration.. and even braking.. in a straight line. When you hit the twisties the Ferrari will dance from corner to corner while other cars will sway and rock. I've always thought that distribution of the weight in a dynamic cornering situation is what defines "handling". Didn't those 60's bricks have most weight up front and that alone will lead to oversteer in a corner under power? (migth be off on this)

I remember one of those "comparison" articles in R+T a few years back.. the corvette had better braking, the Viper better accelleration, etc. etc. But the best OVERALL driving car was the Ferrari. That is the difference in my eyes.

 

First off I think your entire premise is skewed and screwed as I don't believe there is any way to get a sustained 1.2 gs on a skidpad with a street legal 68 Dodge Charger,,,,, maybe more like .7.
As typical of the time, those cars had the cornering characteristics of a school bus!

John

 

No offense intended, but the question itself would seem to evince a fair amount of ignorance and misinformation. Unfortunately that usually means few really qualified and knowledgeable people (e.g., professional racers) will chime in, hoping to avoid pointless controversy.

At the end of the day, I believe the answer will turn out to be something like “No, not even close”.

 

A couple of points:

A) A Ferrari is a complete car. Your hopped up Charger migh run a few laps at competitive speeds, but does it have enough brake cooling to run for (say) 1 hour without brake fade. Then how about the water radiators, oil coolers, transmission coolers to deal with 1 hours of race track speeds--in 103dF Texas summer heat?

B) A Ferrari is adjustible. If it is oversteering, one can simply take 1-2 turns out of the rear spring perches and get rid of the oversteer. Or if it happens to be understeering, the opposite would work. Thus, you can adjust the Ferrari to suit your style.

C) A Ferrari is sensitive. In my Vette I can feel 1 PSI of pressure in the tires as I drive down the raod. In my Ferrari its closer to 1/2 PSI of pressure that I can feel.

D) Speed on a race track is not about absolute numbers (1.2Gs on the skid pan) it is about being able to transition from 1.2Gs of braking to 1.2 Gs of cornering without causing the car to become upset. This requires the right spring rates and dampening at the wheels, the correct Center of Gravity(Mass) of the car, and a carefully laied out roll axis.

E) Ferraris actually corner faster while accelerating than while going around at constant velocity. The rewards weight transfer (plus aerodynamics and suspension geometry) only allow the car to reach its maximum lateral acceleration while accelerating from turns. One does not accelerate through the turn in a skidpan.

 

exactly

 

Was gonna say... I don't think any production car from 1968 is going to corner as well as a modern Mazda MX5. Plus they were built like trash (even the ones considered classics now). I like the '68 Mustangs, but more for nostalgia/looks.

With regard to cheap performance, I would say get a newer Corvette. That would give you good skidpad and acceleration numbers.

If you want a Ferrari, then a Corvette or Dodge won't really matter.

 

Yes, your upgraded Charger might be faster around the track.

Would it be as fun? I don't know, but numbers NEVER tell the whole story unless you really are racing.

Qualitative, subjective evaluation. The slower Ferrari might be more fun.

-F

 

If you're end goal is top performance at the best cost, a Ferrari will never, ever be the answer. You have to understand that Ferrari's, like many other cars worth owning, are so much more than just going fast. Does it goes fast, yes it does, but in the automotive world Ferrari is the pinnacle of everything a special sports car should be. Maybe more modern cars lose it to some extent, but my guess would be many people buying Ferrari's today are buy into the whole idea of what Ferrari represents.... not just performance numbers.

If you don't understand that, I would say stay away. They are just too expensive not only to buy, but more importantly to maintain not love them. I never mess around with other cars on the road. Besides the safety issue, they might be quicker or faster, and that's not why I own my Ferrari. I'm not going to get down on my car because it gets beat by a car that costs about as much as two of my major services and is 20 years newer. If I wanted the fastest car on the road, I probably could have purchased it a few times over by now.

 

With all that weight in the nose, 54/46 weight distribution.. the polar moment in the car would lead to less than optimal handling. As the great Sheldon Cooper says: "the physics don't lie!" ;-)

 

Me thinks your missing the entire point of what a Ferrari is all about, I have had a few car's that would either outhandle most Ferrari's and out accelerate them but they were no Ferrari. Remember performance stat's mean little or nothing to those who understand and appreciate the passion that is Ferrari. How about this scenario drive both makes back to back and then give us your opinion.

 

The beauty and the heritage means a great deal to me. From 1968, there's a car that has the same appeal for me, but it's not a Dodge. A gorgeous, fully restored Pontiac Firebird with a RA2 motor would hail back to some amazing days for that marque. They would go on to produce some amazing production motors for the time, the RAIV, the Super Duty, the HO. These were great motors, beautiful beautiful cars, and '68 was right smack in the middle of the greatest generation for Pontiac. There are a few stories out there, brands that made a mark in racing history, some models that really epitomize that heritage. But only those few years. Ferrari, every damned one of them, inspire the awe and passion for the marque.

 

I'm curious how he figures that the dodge will pull 1.2g. Did he install a data logger or us he using some other meter or did the suspension manufacturer say his car will do it once he installs their stuff. I have a bridge for sale.

 

I believe his meaning was 'if' I installed this $20K suspension package. There a a few old Dodges that run the Nevada Blitz (just my term) that have that amount of cash in their suspension but that is needed for a 30+yr old muscle car to even get close to the handling of a modern day performance car. I believe his intentions are good and he is learning and curious which is always a good thing imho. Remember the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.

 

Ok, but likely he would need to stiffen the chassis and add some r compound tires to get there. A good set of race tires and the ferrari will probably pull 1.5g