Holy crap do I miss testing between races! In its place we get ridiculous threads like this....
Agree, and I've said this before, MS started his decline way back in about 2003 if not earlier. Yes he still won but that was because of the car. His absolute best years as a driver were before '99. Now it is 2011, thus MS peaked 12 years ago!! Pete
that still doesn't mean he doesn't deserve his spot. I still think there are others who drive worse than him on the grid....start by getting rid of them first.
+ 10 million Yep 1) He deserves his spot, but like that former QB from Green Bay, he's spoiling it. USUALLY drivers that do what MS is doing get killed. 2) And replace them with who? Other drivers that are just as inexperienced as the ones they replaced? Really stupid idea. I read this, and all I can think is you are sarcastically joking, because if you are not, you should be banned. ANYONE needs the quickest car to be the quickest driver with today's cars. Keep in mind the car MS is in this year DOMINATED last year, so he SHOULD have a few top-3's by now. Oh but wait, he's also a bit older. Gone are the days of guys being super-competitive into their mid-40's. Not sure how to take this, but thanks.
I also want to add: Derek Warwick drove the Toleman in 1983, and IIRC he was near the front in a bunch of races, and I think leading a few of them, but the motor always seemed to let him down. The chassis was GOOD. You can say POS motor and I'd agree with you, but they didn't have the finances to pour into a turbo motor that BMW or Renault had. As always, with the right amount of money I think Brian Hart could have built in some reliability.
Agree. I've said for a long time that the problem with F1 is not the tracks and cars so much but the scared drivers (due to corporate pressure) that have been bought up in this modern system where being able to get funds and speak well is more important than having huge fncken balls on the track. Pete
Going back to the Mercedes-Benz Group C "Junior Team" days, we needn't go out of the team to find drivers whom regularly outpaced Schumacher. It was well known that Frentzen and Wendlinger regularly outpaced Schumacher in the same car. The constant criticisim that keeps coming up in the German media is that Schumacher is arrogantly and stubbornly holding on to the techniques and stratigies that landed him seven World Championships and refusing to accept that F-1 has changed since 2008. At the start of this comeback, Schumacher fans predicted 3-4 wins in 2010. Once it was obvious this wasn't going to happen the predictions then turned to 2011 where he'd have a car built to his demands. Now in 2011, Schumacher has a car built to his demands, is still being outshown by Rosberg and now we're hearing that they're just "dialing the car in". BHW
Just calling it how I see it and from what I hear from Brackley. Schu takes a harder and deeper line, brakes later (why do you think he was having an issue with the air reattaching to the wing yet Nico wasn't?), and hits the throttle earlier. Nico is not nearly as aggressive which is currently working to his advantage and I'm happy for him.
Surely the results speak for themselves. "better" would be hard to define, but where the aim of the game is to get points, you'd have to say Nico is more than 3 times better than MS at the moment
If Nico's technique results in faster lap times, better positions and more points I'd say he's driving better and so at this point is the better driver.
Yes, Nico is driving better. Michael is the better driver though as his style is more, how can I put this, daring? On the edge? Which is unfortunately his downfall with this era in F1. His problem is he is too damn old to change his style. Nothing wrong with his driving though, it is what it always has been, it's just that it is a square fitting into a round hole or at least trying to anyway
Your logic escapes me. Michael is the better driver despite, by all quantitative measures, he's slower? His driving style doesn't fit today's cars. Well neither does mine. Do I get a pass as well?
Braking as late as Michael does combined with his razor sharp and deep line does not translate to these cars the same is the 2000-2004 cars. I'm not out of my head in saying this. Imagine playing a Boesendorfer piano with heavy action for 15 years and then having to swap to a light action Yamaha. If the car is not an extension of the driver's body, it will never be right... A. Senna
So he's not driving the car properly. Not a sign of a good driver. One of the hallmarks of an expert is adaptability. Something Michael now lacks. Michael may have left the party too early but he can't expect them to still be playing Disco when he returns.
Well thats it really, he either won't adapt or cannot. You have to admire Ferraripilot for his constant defence of MS though..
Plucky chap to be sure. Put another way Michael's problem isn't that he's no longer the driver he used to be but rather that he IS.
Ahh so meaning he was never any good in the first place ... I'am just getting this fireproof suit on...... hang on...
I agree with you there. I think he has indeed lost his adaptability. Still a great driver, but stuck in his ways is probably the best way anyone can put it.
A great driver the way Fangio, Moss and Stewart are. Not great the way Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are alas.
F1 has changed. So you guys want to pull some drivers and replace them with precisely WHO? Do you guys have any idea how many drivers have been hailed as the next coming of Jim Clark, and none of them ever sniffed a win? Yeah, replace one type of 'bad driver' with another type of 'bad driver' = same results. Actually, MS has made us all realize how GREAT Niki Lauda was. Niki retired in the non-turbo era, came back in the middle of it and won a WDC in a turbo car - albeit with much better competition top-to-bottom than MS has today.
I don't think I can fully agree with this as it's just not possible to quantify then vs now. Drivers reach their zenith and it's not that one is better than the other, it's just that they are utterly brilliant in what they are doing. And granted all the other pieces of the puzzle fit together, championships are won. I don't think it's driving skill alone that wins championships, but other factors such as working with engineers in building the championship winning cars too. Great topic though.
Actually did MS every have adaptability? I always thought the car, the rules, the team, adapted to him. I'd like to see testing come back because I truly feel MS would benefit more than anyone else on the grid.
