Disreputable Dealer -- what would you do?

In order to handle the fobs, unless you have the red one, you are out of luck and you will have to spend $1500+.

As for the books, there are 2 warranty books that are basically mated to your car via the VIN, engine #, etc. So, it's not just a matter of finding the stuff.

 

I think small claims is a viable answer, however I know it is impractical for you being in Canada. Did you send the dealer a demand letter, and give the dealer a deadline or alternative in which the dealer will send you a check for the amount you estimate it will take to buy these items? That is the first step in this process. After that, if it doesn't work, buy the items, and sue the dealership for the amount, or in the alternative file a claim with the shipper and their insurance co.

The truth is an absolute defense to defamation, whether libel or slander.

BTW, the mere fact that the Dealer has no real explanation for the missing items, outside of some BS story, and has not offered to make you whole is outrageous!

Good luck, and let us know the outcome

 

Well i would have gotten a written promise for the missing items and a dollar value at the time of the sale. That s a way you could have resolved the matter. Remember this as a learning lesson. i have learned many lessons from other people !

If you are stating the facts then you can certainly identify the dealer without fear. The truth is still the truth. If he is an Fchat member he can certainly post a rebuttal.

Then what have you got. Still nothing in the court of personal opinion.

You are in Canada and he is in the USA. Makes it difficult. But you probably got a killer deal compared to buying in your backyard? How much did you save?

 

i want to believe you are over the age of 12 . This sounds like 2 5th graders arguing over who took the football home . Grow some BALLS THis guy is a typical scumbag . So either give his name or go have a tme out to think about it .. IF you respect the group here then HELP protect your brethren or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just hush and let somebody get reamed.. Clear enough I think!!!!!!!

 

The OP may be in Canada but I bet the shipping company isn't. He can still use the shipping company to get compensation.

Here's what I would do.

First, I wouldn't be posting in an open forum where everyone can see what I'm saying about the case. And, I wouldn't be threatening anyone or even give the appearance of that. I could be wrong about what happened no matter how obvious things seem....

Second, I'd take the emails from the dealer claiming the shipper stole the goods and ask to make a claim with the shipper, They get this sort of stuff all the time. I'd do my research and find out the true market value for what it would take to replace it. I'd tell them I want to make a claim with their insurance company for that amount.

I might contact the dealer and tell them that I need more information on the "stolen" goods because I'm going to file an insurance claim. I want photos or other evidence that the items were actually in the trunk.

Most likely the shipper will check the shipping manifest and see that the books and whatever aren't on the list. That doesn't prove it wasn't stolen but it does at least make them believe that they didn't do it. If they were on the manifest, you'd get a check that week.

The shipper should turn the matter over to their insurance company to deal with it. They can put pressure on the dealer to either cough up the goods or reimburse the claim.

As you are in Canada, that does make a difference unfortunately to you. But, you can still use the evidence you have to get what you want.

To me, the stupidest thing is the dealer claiming the items were stolen by the shipping company. If that's a lie, it's going to come back to haunt them. If they said that you were simply mistaken in what the car would come with and there was no documentation, then it would be much more difficult. It would literally be "he said, she said".

Because they said it was "stolen" to me is the best case that you will eventually get restitution.

If you think the dealer just isn't shipping you the stuff because they are lazy or trying to sell it elsewhere for a few bucks, you're wrong. They don't have it. They might have believed they had it at one point but they don't. It may just be misplaced or they had the wrong information. It's just too easy to send it to you Fedex and be done with it. So, it's gone. Now if the time to try to get a replacement.

All this can be done without a lawyer with just a few phone calls. It's a lot better than a dealer's attorney contacting YOU about comments you made in a public forum.

I do wish you luck on this. Don't take my posts the wrong way. Everyone here is pulling for you to make it right. And, I do agree that you should not take it out on the car. It's just a minor bump in the road for what I'm sure will be a great experience.

 

I rest my case on why trying to defame or pressure someone in an open forum is a bad idea.

 

You are a rude pri#k to speak to someone like this, he is just asking advice.This forum is all about helping our fellow ferrari owners not berating them... take a chill pill and add value rather than criticism.
My advice to this fellow is to simply seek a lawyer and request the equipment that was promised.Clearly it was promised as the dealer admitted placing it in the car. The dealer arranged the transport the dealer is responsible or the items are insured. Either way you are entitled to your books and keys regardless of what bdelp thinks and as to suggesting someone is a scumbag I think the Moderator should ban this chatter for such slander.

 

You must have missed Bob's post above.

Secondly, it's not slander but libel

Thirdly, Bob has a point that you must have missed. The OP should just file a claim with the shipper since the dealer insists the material was in the car.
It's as simple as that. Dealer says it's in the car. Shipper picks it up. Shipper delivers. Stuff is missing. You file a claim with the shipper. End of story. Let the shipper deal with the dealer.

And yes, I also don't want to be used in a blackmail scheme here on Fcht. What are we, a bunch of 12 year olds?

The OP didn't ask for advice, he posted a threat to the dealer if things weren't solved to his satisfaction.

Big difference.


Kai

 

"Guys, I'd like to know what you would do in my position."

So this doesn"t constitute asking for advice? Come on stop getting holier than thou over a simple question and some straight forward answers.

 

There is nothing wrong with using this forum as a learning tool or warning for fellow Ferrari owners who have had a bad or good experience. This forum is not just about showing people pictures of their new 360/430, or how to program a remote, the future price of a CS or any other topic dealt with hundreds of times. This is an open forum about pretty much ANYTHING Ferrari.
Users of this forum have every right to give their opinion of dealers that have been good or bad. As current and future buyers, we all have the right and desire to ingest as much information about every aspect of ownership as possible. We are certainly educated enough to know if someone is just pissed off and blowing off steam or if they have a legitimate concern. This certainly includes the OP here.
Remember, these threads always allow for follow-up. If the seller makes good on things and was in fact in the wrong, the OP can and certainly should post a follow-up to his experience.

 

I can be a rude pr$ck. I probably was. If that's the way it came across, I'm sorry.

But, you should also being saying the hot heads here who are egging him on to post who the dealer is and get him in trouble are bigger pr$cks. People here too often just want blood and don't care who gets hurt.

Never did I say he shouldn't get his books back. Never did I say he shouldn't try to get restitution.

I'm not sure what "clearly" is. There is nothing clear here except numerous assumptions. There are 4 things that could be happening and I don't think anyone should be assuming anything, particularly when it can be read by anyone.

1) The dealer is a crook and/or a liar or inept or lazy and never put the stuff in the car

2) The shipper is a thief

3) The OP is trying to rip off the dealer

4) The OP has some kind of grudge and this is all just a big fairy tail.


As to 1: It does seem the most likely. Most likely, but not certain. The dealer says it's not true and that the goods were in the car when it was shipped. It may just be a misunderstanding also and the books and keys may be sitting in somone's desk. You have to admit, that IS possible.

As to 2: It is possible. No one has asked the shipper yet their side of the story. Until it's shown not to be certain, it's unfair to accuse anyone. Is it likely? No. But possible.

As to 3: This seems highly unlikely. The OP seems to just want his stuff. Coming here isn't going to help him rip anyone off.

As to 4: None of us can know. As the OP bought a car from the dealer, it could go either way. Only the dealer and the OP know their relationship. But, if he did have a grudge, why not just post it? It doesn't make sense that he would have a grudge.


So, that's it. I hope again the OP does the right thing and goes through some of the steps I suggested or look for formal legal advice in Canada, and gets back what he deserves.

 

There are numerous threads that ended up with bans of people who made unfair accusations about businesses here. Tell me what good that does the OP.

I said I'd really like to know the story here. If this dealer is a rip off, for sure we should know.

But -- is he? Do you know he is? Yes, we suspect he is but it's not been shown to anyone yet that he's not a cheat and a liar.

Is that what you want us to be-- a lynch mob for every person who thinks they were ripped off?

As to follow up statements about accusations the question always is: "I'm glad I've been cleared. Please tell me where I can go to get my reputation back."

 

Fair enough.

I think the answer is go work it out with the dealer and report back.

A reputation is quickly ruined but slowly built back up, for all parties involved.

Unless the OP is willing to make his own personal information public I think it's too soon to name names, IMHO.

I am definitely curious on the outcome. It's like a mystery novel> who'd done it? Shipper, seller, buyer???


Kai

 

Lets not get into name calling ok if I was in the OP's position I would also have used F-chat but only after I had pursued every other option available and still the matter was not resolved.

 

Assuming what you say is all verifiable I don't see why you wouldn't name the dealer. If you believe in your case you've nothing to fear. I wouldn't name the shipping company because it's been written here that there was an allegation of theft (whether by inference or direct statement) and that allegation will most certainly be denied by whomever is alleged to have said it which will leave you to dealing with the repercussions.

If you're missing the actual stamped service record book in addition to the other manuals you might regard it as a deal breaker and seek to reverse the transaction entirely and seek your costs. That said, is sounds like never actually saw that book so you really don't know what you're missing and as such I guess you'd be on weak ground to completely unravel this purchase.

Outside of the original stamped service book I think everything else is capable of being replaced. Personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. I'd just let the selling dealer know that if he hasn't sent you the missing items by a given (reasonable) date that you're going to set about rectifying the problem yourself and will seek to fix the costs on him.

As regards the keys and the remote I guess you're probably talking about having to get a new alarm ECU, three fobs, programming, possibly changing the locks on ignition and door. All dealership stuff and easily done but expensive. I don't know if the dealership can order you a new set of manuals but if not, they are out there on eBay etc so just do a little research, keep your records and order the most complete and reasonably priced set you can find.

That's my advice! In the meantime get out and drive your lovely new car and enjoy. Don't let this interfere with that!

 

Honestly, from what we know here, a more accurate way to restate it would be, " for the X time, give me what I paid you for and what you promised repeatedly to provide or I will tell everyone on Fchat"

It isn't simply what he "wants". It is what "belongs" to him.

but that is just my opinion

 

Now thats some good advice. And if the dealer was reading, he'd take it to heart so fast heads would spin.

Its the art of the deal, folks, the thing that seperates kids that retire in their early 30's to a life of worrying that their f430 doesn't sound good enough from guys who are in their 60's still trying to run a hustle.

The art of the deal: if a deal is bad for one party, its bad for both parties. Sounds kind of self help video lame, doesn't it? It defines entire companies successes and failures. You can never screw someone and win. If you sell a product for $180 it shoudl be worth $181 to people.

So simple, but everywhere you turn you have some butt-cap or other trying to run a scam. AT the end of the race, after all the laps, they aren't ever taking the checkers.

 

In all honesty, fi the OP's story is true to the letter, it is fair and reasonable to name names, and probably a community service. To many people the purchase of these cars is a very serious matter, and for ANYBODY the purchase of one of these cars is a celebration of sorts, kind of a celebration of the fact that you get to.

In a way, thats what a Ferrari is. A little party the buyer is throwing for his/her self. "ha! when I was 10 I spent all 12 bucks I got for christmas on a subscription to Road and Track, after stealing a discount slip/ticket thing from a mag on the rack at kmart, and i stared for hours at a Ferrari's pictures, and now I have one. I win". Thats really what these cars are, in my view.

things like this - buying a celebration item and having it wind up making you angry - are one of the worst feelings in life. If you buy a gallon of milk and its spoiled, whoopdy doo, big deal. Take it back. If you buy a Ferrari and wind up having to be angry about it, thats an actual loss, because you can't get your "celebration" day back.

Really, if people are selling "special" products, they bear the responsibility of not doing something like this.

I concede I didn't read the entire thread, but if it was me I would name every name I could possibly find... after asking my seven hundred bucks an hour attorney what legal risks I would bear. He'd probably get pissed and tell me exactly how he'd go about it, which would be more clever than how i'd go about it... lol

 

Blackmail: "to mean the obtaining of some advantage by the use of improper threats, especially threats to make use of information discreditable to the victim."

"Blackmail is a form of extortion, in which a threat is made to disclose a crime or social disgrace. Extortion is the taking of personal property by threat of future harm."

You state : "The dealer says that he's trying to find these items for me, and he says that if I name his name on fchat he will pursue me for defamation of character."

You can:
1. Gossip about someone else's secret
2. Threaten to reveal such information
3. Ask the person for money or property

To combine the three is where you venture toward Blackmail or Extortion.

By reading your comments it sounds like you have threatened (or mentioned) to reveal the name and details of the dealer if they dont provide you with property. The fact that you think the property is justly yours is here say.

I am not a lawyer, I am not licensed to provide legal information, and everyone should do their own research.

I hope you get your books and fobs through the appropriate channels and am sorry to hear you had such a bad buying experience.

 

LOL.....
Since you sound like a lawyer but you are not.......I guess this would be a good line for HolidayInn Express to quote for one of their commercials

 

Are any of the posters here lawers? Care to give a "curbside opinion" on this?

 

Are emails admissable in court?

 

If you are simply telling the truth about what happened to you, what is the problem??

 

"improper" is the key here.

As long as it is the truth and nothing but the truth...