Disreputable Dealer -- what would you do?

Well there IS those darn cam variators, that fly out for no reason, and knock little baby birds out of their nest in the tree.....

 

Thanks for coming back and posting this...I better understand your points/point of view now.

 

Let's please not be catty or shrill over Bob's reaction to this thread. Regardless of whether we (from time to time) did not agree with his point or delivery, he is a long-time, active member of this forum and his (perhaps temporary) exit is not an outcome anyone wanted (speaking for myself, if not "everyone").

FWIW, and only offering my opinion since he posted telling silver members he left, I suspect, perhaps wrongly - I don't know obviously - that what bothered him was more what he himself posted here and in other recent threads, more so than what others posted...just a guess that he re-read some of this stuff and perhaps didn't like what his reactions were to the things he saw/read here...

Final point, and then moving on, decorum matters here like elsewhere...I sometimes have to monitor myself (and I'm sure fail from time to time). I tend to take posters at their word when they come here. If they have nefarious motives and are out to "use" the forum for some "evil end", then I'd rather be proven naive then be cynical upfront...YMMV

 

+1. Simon, defamation is a joke. Name the clowns.

 

This is exactly why I posted what I did. We don't know what was in his mind but I suspect he probably doesn't want others continuing his argument.

Edit : I just didn't see any need for spelling it out so explicitly...!!!

 

Ok, got it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

The envelope please

 

Defamation, whether libel or slander, is the making public of a false statement about a person that causes damage to their reputation. The majority of defendants in defamation, libel, and slander actions are publishers and newspapers, and to a lesser extent television broadcasters. The definitions of defamation libel and slander vary from state to state so it is important to know the laws of your particular state before embarking on any legal process. However, there are no states in which a defamation action can be taken if the injured party is deceased.

Broadly there are four elements that the plaintiff is required to prove in a defamation lawsuit, whether for libel (a defamatory written statement, for example in a newspaper or other publication) or slander (a defamatory spoken statement.) These are as follows:

The statement, which must be about another person, must be false.
The statement must be ‘published’ to a third party, who cannot also be the person who is being defamed. Publishing in this context does not mean that it must be printed, but purely that the statement has to be ‘made available’ to someone other than the person about whom the statement was made.
If the nature of the statement is ‘of public concern’ the person who has published it must be at least liable in negligence. Public figures who seek to prove that they have been defamed must prove an additional element under the First Amendment of the US Constitution, that in publishing the statement the defendant was acting with ‘actual malice’ (by publishing something they know to be a lie) or at least to have a total disregard for whether the statement is true or not.
The person about whom the defamatory statement is made must be ‘damaged’ by the statement. In some states, it is sufficient to establish that the plaintiff suffered ‘mental anguish’ as opposed to ‘damage.’

 

Okay, I think I've decided what to do for now. I'm going to contact the dealer (again!!!!) and say that I'd like a firm proposal for resolving all of the open items by the end of next week. Thereafter, these are the steps that I will take (and of which I shall make him aware):

1. I will complete and file the Florida DMV's Complaint Affidavit.
2. Failing a satisfactory response to (1), I will employ the services of an attorney "local" to the dealership.
3. I will remind him that he should seek to resolve the open items satisfactorily anyway, because a happy customer will reflect well upon his business. One of these days, somebody on fchat will ask about these guys, and I will be the first to jump in with an opinion (based upon fact), which will either be something along the lines of "it was a rocky start, but these guys came good in the end", or it will be "run a mile".

I think this is a reasonable approach, and I thank ALL on fchat who have voiced their opinions. Opinions are still welcome of course as I've enjoyed this thread immensely.

 

Hope it works out.

 

Given that the dealer has stated to you that the items were in the car when it was picked up, it seems to me you have a pretty good claim with the transport company's insurance company, right?

I don't see "getting the dealer on your side" and jointly completing the claim forms on your list...how come?

 

Take it in steps, let him know you want your 'stuff' without any threat of action whatsoever, but with the firmness that "you are not going to go away"...

You might also let him know you know "what it costs" (the eBay books), the fob system replacement, etc.

That's your "hard $$ number".

My .02

 

Hey gang. Didn't read all 111 posts, but the last 3 pages gave me an idea what happened. Here's my take:

1- I'm a reasonable person, and I wouldn't go after the wrong guy. Based on many, many cars shipped, I could almost bet cash money transport company didn't go digging for some books and keys. Therefore, I'd leave them out of the mess.

2- Also based on personal experience, I could also bet cash money dealer was at fault. But that doesn't mean OP wasn't at fault at all. His fault was to trust a dealer at their word.... just because it's a dealer. I also found out Ferrari dealers are not any different :-(.

3- Finally, unless what I was wronged with would cost considerably more than to legally correct my 'oversight' (trusting dealer, in this case), I'd just let it go. And consider it a lesson learned. But I'm not a litigious person, nor do I have a big ego .

Good luck OP, and please keep us posted.

 

I think you've summarised the truth of it quite nicely. My response:

1. There's no way it was the shipping company. They transport all of FNA's vehicles, their reputation is beyond reproach, they are entrusted with many many rare exotics (including a 1957 Testarossa, worth about $15M). There's just no way they'd want to take the manuals from a "lowly" 360. Besides which, if they did open the trunk and take the manuals, why didn't they also take the brand new Omega watch that was sitting on top of everything in the trunk. Nope, it doesn't stack up. Why would they destroy their 30 year reputation over something like this.

2. I was at fault. I believed the yarns that were spun and I placed my faith in the dealership to follow through on their promises. I should have had every single item photographed, and I should have had the driver tick-off each and every item before accepting the vehicle for transportation to Canada. Shipping companies hate this approach (as I've subsequently learnt) but I wouldn't do it any other way in future and I would advise other fchatters to pay attention to my advice in this respect.

3. I'm not a litigious person either, but I also cannot stomach blatant abuse of trusting people such as myself. If I have to go the legal route, then I will be (IMHO) doing it partially for others on fchat who also need to protected against unscrupulous activities such as this. You might think this is a strange (and possibly unbelievable) approach, but I'm a truly decent person, and in my own business dealings I always put myself in the other person's shoes and ask if they have been treated fairly. I make my decisions based upon my answer to this question, and it has stood me in good stead over the years.

Here endeth today's sermon!!

PS - maybe I have a big ego, I don't know!

 

When you look back on this someday, you'll realize bdelp was giving sage advice, as was 410SA, who knows a thing or two dozen about putting some real skin in the game while buying, selling and the meaning of caveat emptor.

 

six pages and no sticky on lessons learned on buying, shipping high dollar items? sounds like a pretty good canidate. list of reputable carriers both continental and intercontinental.
good places to get vehicle title insurance etc...i think it would suck to lose a mil cuz your f50 had been boosted 10 years ago for example. you old coots have to have a formula for these kinda transactions already.

 

Throw in my .02 since everyone else is. I feel bad for the buyer. There's no excuse if in fact the dealer did promise something then not deliver (or outright lied about even having them).

THAT SAID... without the items 'in hand' at the time of sale, it would have been prudent to figure they wouldn't materialize and discount that into the price paid. Then, when and if those accessories do show up, it will be a pleasant surprise.

Related example: I purchased a high-end used DCS range from a private seller in Naples (FL). Oven was in great shape, good price (about 1/3 of the cost new), but it was missing the manual and a stainless backsplash plate that was needed. Seller stated he had both at his place in Miami and would mail them to me immediately upon his return there. Of course, after 5 more emails (from me) and calls, no manual and backsplash plate have been mailed. Am I bummed about it, and a bit disappointed in the human race in general? Yes. But I knew it was a possible outcome, and I figured that into the price I paid, knowing if I had to eat the cost of buying the accessory new (downloaded the manual, too bad the equivalent can't be done for your 360) I was stil getting a fair deal.

And, sorry to say, but FL in general has a reputation as one of the highest scammer states in the country. Not that all dealers/sellers are bad here, but there are more than the fair share of con artists here. (I'm a native Michigander.) When buying ANYTHING from a FL seller, especially Miami, I would exercise extreme caution - the economic and building downturn has hit here even worse that in most areas of the country.

Of course, the least risky variant is to buy a new from a well-known dealer, but unfortunately many of us aren't in the ballpark for a new 458!

 

When I bought mine, I had the same issue w the dealer telling me the keys were all there but could not provide them later. Finally, we agreed that they just ordered me a new set and I paid at cost. That was it.

It could be very upsetting and time consuming to deal with this. I needed to save my energy for running my business.

Best of luck with you. It is going to be tough either way.

 

Like they say: "pick your battles".

Not sure it is going to be worth your energy and $. Sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and save the energy for the "important" things in life. You cannot fight every injustice!

Regardless, best of luck retrieving what is rightfully yours!

Jes

 

Yea, what about those 10 gold bars that were in the trunk? You know, this could be a great racket, get a dealer at one end to say stupid things like " gold, cash and rare paintings were all in the car before shipping and even though the shipper didn't see the items we (the dealer) say they were there! I've been working way to hard to make money and as several of you guys have mentioned this might be a way to recoup money even though the dealer appears to be at fault and not the shipper, wow what a great idea! You do realize that in real business you are only given a couple of free claims per year before your company doesn't get renewed right? These small claims are usually paid by the company which charges the driver from his pay check and I just couldn't help but think of the lack of character of some post to take from someone who the op didn't feel did this just to get free money.

 

fwiw, I didn't suggest insurance fraud. Someone lied and stole here if the OPs assertions are to be believed (I do believe him). I couldn't tell from the info in the thread that I had read at the time of my post if it was the dealer or the shipper (for example I had not read about the watch in the boot at that point). So, I (and others) suggested that he also consider a claim with the shipper. To be clear, it is highly unlikely the OP will ever know for certain if it was the dealer or in shipment that the items went missing. From subsequent posts its sounds like the OP has concluded that the dealer is the one at fault here as he decided the shipper's reputation (and the presence of the watch) makes them an unlikely source of the problem.

 

Good luck, I hope it works out for you, those are reasonable steps to take.

 

I don't see the OP as "whining" at all. He did not get what he paid for, period. How is that
so defensible nowadays - to the point that we tell him, just go purchase those items again.

What good is this forum if we cannot share our concerns and experiences to the benefit of Ferrari owners and future owners. If anyone became aware of a Ferrari parts supplier who shorted parts or conducted business in an otherwise unethical manner, should we simply move on to another source without advising our "friends" here? Should we sanitize our posts and limit them to smiley faces?

At this point in time, I prefer not to name the dealer as does the op here. Although I owe them nothing, I want to post the final ajudication for all to see. If I am wrong, then it is unfair of me to put their name "out there". But is it unfair to advise the forum of what the circumstances are and garner advice from those more knowledgable than I on these matters? I don't think so.....

 

Didn't read this whole thing but if dealer told you the items were there when the car left and they weren't when you got the car this would be a case for a claim on the transporters insurance. Let them duke it out. Those items are probably $1,500 or so to replace.

Bottom line is the dealer probably never had them. Contact the PO of the car and see if they were ever included? If the car was an auction car chances are they were missing during that process. FLA dealers are pretty shady and it's to the point you should stay away from them. Case in point.

 

I contacted the PO. It was another dealer! He doesn't remember ever having a spare key or a spare remote, but he thinks the car had its manuals.