Now, did the factory label the 250GTO a GTO in development, or not until it got certified, which we all know they played number games to achieve by counting any 250 GT of the era. Now the "288 GTO" was built to achieve the numbers for Grouppe B, and I believe they achieved that, even though Group B was shut down. So I would say the 288 GTO is just as deserving, if not more deserve of having the legit "O" than the 250 GTO....
The experts will weigh in but as I recall the factory labeled it a GTO before official homologation in an effort to "guide" the FIA's hand in a potentially contentious decision.
No matter what one thinks of Jeremy Clarkson, he is a fairly accomplished driver. I saw the video in which the 599 GTO, while technically faster, was unable to keep up with the 430 Scuderia. Personally, while I have a lot of respect for the 599 in all of its configurations - and would surely love driving one - it seems that the "GTO" moniker was merely attached to the tuned-up version of the original road car - and its performance does not appear to exceed or even match at least two of Ferrari's other current cars.
A less powerful mid-engined car will drive circles around a front engined car in anything except a straight line drag race. F1 teams discovered this 50 years ago.
If I'm not mistaken, the factory originally called the car "250 GT", just like the previous one (which we now call SWB). They wanted the FIA to believe that this was just an evolution of the SWB, even because the rule was to build 100 examples of the car and Ferrari knew that it would be an impossible task. When the car was homologated in Paris, the factory received a telegram that simply said "GT O" (GT Omologato), which can be translated as "GT has been homologated". So they decided to call the car "250 GTO" AFTER official homologation. By the way, Ferrari tried to do the same with the 250 LM: their idea was that the car was simply an evolution of the GTO(even though they had swapped the engine position...). Too bad this time FIA decided that these jokes had gone too far and refused. This took the 250 LM to run against prototypes (instead of GTs), Ferrari was so angry towards the Automobil Club Italiano (that had not helped him in this battle) to the point that he decided to race his F1 cars in white and blue under the flag of North America Racing Team (instead of the traditional Italian red) and it was in this livery that Phil Hill won his championship... but this is another story!
that's my understanding as well. Ferrari decided to call the 288 a "GTO", at their sole discretion, well before homologation (i.e., approval for racing by sanctioning body). In the case of the 250 GT, the sanctioning body provided the "O" suffix after homologation ... to indicate that the car had indeed been approved for racing by the sanctioning body.
Actually, the other car was the 458 and the 599 GTO was not able to follow it because that ape of a driver turned all the electronics aids off and floored the throttel at the exit of every corner. He was clearly trying to be funny but all he did was to show how an incompetent of a driver he really is.
Front axle in 599 is in front of the engine therefore,technically,it is a mid engine car. Btw,one video does not change the fact that the 599GTO is faster on any track then either Scuderia or 458.
Please do not take Top Gear as factual testing. Clarkson's goal is to entertain and that's what he does by powersliding EVERY single car he drives instead of actually trying to do a clean lap.
Yep. 458. (What was I thinking?) Now. . . he's an ape? Uh. . . okay. . . I thought he was just melodramatic and pretentious, but. . . all right. The fact remains that the 458 came out looking much better than the 599 GTO. Showboat powersliding notwithstanding, why would he (or anyone) lie about which car's performance is better? (Not arguing, having driven neither one to date. Just wondering.)
To have a story. TC obviously prefers the 458 and had is mind made up about the 599GTO. He was just trying to prove his point.
Hell, I'm not saying that. I'm sure it will blow the doors off 98% of all the cars in the world. And, like I said, I'd love to drive one. But, I'd rather have a 458. The trouble I have with the 599 "GTO" is this: The two previous cars designated "GTO" were built specifically for racing (even if the 288 never did.) And they were each at the pinnacle of Ferrari performance in their time. So, no, I'm not saying it's a "poor excuse for a sports car," I'm just saying that the car that wears the "I'm-the-pinnacle-of-what-a-Ferrari-can-do" badge ought to be able to, unquestionably, absolutely, undeniably, blow AWAY the car that's at the entry level. If it can't, then it's a really nice, 12-cylinder touring car, which is just fine - but it shouldn't be counted a "GTO." JMO, of course.
In my original post, I was not intending to address the subject of whether or not the (288) GTO was actually homologated. That is a different topic. Equally, I'm not addressing the question of whether Ferrari was justified in using the GTO designation for the 288 model. I'm simply saying that it is a fact according to the official Ferrari web site that the model name given to it at the time by the factory was simply "GTO." That must be correct, unless one is brave enough to claim that Ferrari itself does not know what it named its own car. Ferrari acknowledge on their web site, that it has become common for people to call the 250 model the "GTO" and the 288 model the "288 GTO" but that does not change the historical fact that Ferrari named the 288 model simply "GTO." Language is dynamic. So, over time, people often call something by a new or different name. But, there can only be one original name that is given to something by it's creator.
Truth be told, the 599 GTO is a 599 "Scuderia". The pinnacle of Ferrari technology is still the Enzo (just imagine what Ferrari could do if it designed the Enzo today). That of course does not negate the 599 GTO's merits; it's a fantastic supercar and by all means faster than the already fantastic 458 (a mate of mine is trading his 430 for the 458 and I shall have a first hand experience soon ).
I can see where this debate is going Meanwhile here it is again on the Mille Miglia. Pic by marcopiz Image Unavailable, Please Login
Joe, thanks for getting this thread back on topic! I'll contribute a blurry mobile phone picture for the evening, although it may not help the debate Image Unavailable, Please Login
I must say the Argento/Rosso is such a classic combination. As far as the GTO debate is concerned, I say we must celebrate each version for what it is as created in the era in which it was created with accordingly different circumstances. Ferrari has bestowed the GTO moniker upon these cars, so who are we as Ferrari-lovers to question the artist as to whether the art-form is deserving of the name he has bestowed upon it? The artist has their reasons, complicated or otherwise, so lets just enjoy them, and meanwhile search for the elusive 250 GTO quietly rotting away in a barn somewhere in South America which can be bought in exchange for a new 458
Great post, its really not possible to compare any of the GTO's each as you say as born in a different time.
