definitely both of the above. and if that's how you read it you're clearly the same, but the opposite of me.
no no no...i have nothing against lewis, mclaren, alonso....or anyone else. I just think Alonso had a good reason for being totally pissed off with how he was treated at mclaren. it was very disrespectful...and what lewis did that day was too. it should have been handled better.
First off, I don't know what that situation has to do with the post he was replying to, which was my post where Alonso said pretty much the identical thing about the Red Bull as Hamilton said. But as for the incident you brought up, you have it ass-backwards. Alonso was supposed to set a qualifying lap first, but Hamilton's car was ready sooner, so the team sent him out first and told him to let Alonso by. According to Hamilton, Alonso was hanging back and Hamilton didn't want Kimi to get in front of him, so he didn't let Alonso by. Let's say that's a total lie and he did it just to piss off Alonso. Well, what Alonso did was to park in front of the garage and make sure he stayed there long enough so that Hamilton didn't get out in time for his final qualifying lap. Alonso says he was just waiting to get a response to a query about his tires. Let's say both Hamilton and Alonso are lying about their motivations on why they did what they did. Alonso is the only one who did something that warranted a penalty, and that's what he got. His actions caused him to get a 5-spot penalty and to cause McLaren to lose constructor points for the race. Alonso finished in 4th, and would have finished higher with the penalty. To blame the situation and the ramifications on Hamilton is like blaming spygate on Ferrari for not protecting their data better. It's asinine. Alonso lost the WDC by just a couple of points. He is 100% directly responsible for not winning the WDC that year and handing the win to Kimi.
Alonso was hired to win the WDC for McLaren. Lewis was a new boy. In any other team (Williams stupidity excluded) it makes perfect sense to not allow team mates to fight on a tight track like Monaco and let the experienced driver show the new boy the ropes so he could learn properly. The only problem with your scenario is that Ron Dennis did not force Lewis in to a proper number 2 role. It is not about your pace, it is about learning so when you are ready to win the WDC you win not only one but many, and dominate. It is interesting that Lewis has only won one. I don't think he will win any more. Basically half way through 2007 he stopped learning. Only a fool thinks he has nothing more to learn. Alonso was a good teacher, but the pupil has to listen first. Lewis is very good, but oh he could have been maybe a Prost ... oh well, such is life. Pete
Sorry, just the facts. Look at the first half of the season. Lewis was on the podium every race, and had 2 wins to match Alonso's 2 wins. The rookie that Pete is saying should have sat down and STFU was smacking his mentor around like a seasoned pro. For McLaren to tell him to go less fast than he was capable of and purposely sandbag would be like Red Bull telling Vettel to do the same, because Webber is so experienced. What is Vettel gonna learn from Webber? How to choke? And what was Hamilton going to learn from Alonso that year? It's a silly suggestion, IMO.
Not going to bother having this chat again, if you don't get it you never will, but also Webber is not a 2 times WDC, thus he does not have the experience I am talking about. Ron played it wrong, and he lost quite rightly his position. I'm pretty confident that Lewis didn't learn as much about winning the WDC as he could have and he will never be a Prost, but glad he won one ... I'm not sure he will win another (on his side he is with a better team than Alonso is at building winners). Pete
I guess he was being taught "how to loose with dignity". With The Great Alonso as teacher I'd ask for a refund.
I don't know that it was about Alonso 'towing' Lewis as much as it was about Alonso having the last crack at qualifying without Lewis on track (by blocking his attempt at a final qualifying run). The issues were boiling before that race though, as Alonso was seriously disturbed that Lewis, as a rookie, was getting equal treatment to the defending WDC. I do think that Ron Dennis owns much of the blame for the problems that season as he clearly made commitments to both drivers that could not be kept. However, it's very hard to ask a fast driver to slow down and to "allow" the other guy to win. When drivers do that, you end up with Rubens Barichello, Mark Webber and Felipe Massa and I don't think Lewis was ever going to settle for that. I guess Dennis' real problem was pursuing guys with similar make ups (in terms of competitiveness and expectations).
I doubt Alonso or Ron Dennis even discussed Lewis before the season started. Why would they, he was just a rookie. All parties (Lewis included, probably) would've assumed that Alonso would've been ahead by some margin. As such, I doubt Ron Dennis broke an agreement that didn't exist. Afterwards, Alonso did admit he was given equal treatment. He lost fair and square.
You may be right, but we don't know that. Even Alonso himself has never said that he got less, only that he thought he should get more, and AFAIK he's never said he was promised anything, just that he felt he should have gotten it. I don't think he's the type to keep quiet if he feels he's not getting what he was promised
Pete, What you are saying is just absurd. What was Hamilton supposed to do, drive at less than his ability just to observe Alonso? What can be observed when you're running at 9/10ths that can't be at 10/10ths? These guys are all professional racers who have years of experience in various cars including open wheel single seaters before they ever get into the cockpit of an F1 car. What was Hamilton supposed to learn? You have raced... you know that you don't go into any series and take a year to "learn the ropes". There's nothing he is going to learn from Alonso, especially when he was beating him regularly almost from the get-go. And your rule only applies when the other driver is a WDC winner? And that will help them learn racecraft? If Hamilton didn't learn that, how come he won the WDC the following year? You mention Prost. From his very first race, he beat Watson in every race that they both finished. Not a good example, since Hamilton did precisely what Prost did.
If you look at the 2nd half of 2007, aka when Alonso had his falling out with Hamilton and stopped sharing his set ups with him, FA was more successful. Not to take away from how well Hamilton did throughout the year, however.
^^^ hard to disagree with the sentiment in the last few posts, but it's all guesswork. none of us have a clue. Even if things are reported as comments made by the parties involved, we still don't know if they're in context or even if it was the truth. It's all smoke and mirrors.
The sharing setup data thing was a rumor doesn't have any basis in fact. And stopping sharing data wouldn't have made Alonso any faster or more consistent, it could only make Hamilton slower. Yet Alonso was faster and more consistent in the last 5 races. That cannot be explained by not sharing his data. Alonso finishing higer was at least equal in importance for why he outperformed Lewis those last 5 races, and that didn't happen from not sharing his data.
