The Future

Jim, are you really asking whether a market still exists for a full-on, no compromises, sports car? I sure hope so. But I dunno if there still are enough of us analog guys left who appreciate the joy of driving the very best of the best, even if we will never be on the podium at Le Mans. Again, I hope so.

Dale

 

I argue they should! Of course I've also argued that the gated shifter should be brought back on the 458 as well..

Most owners may push their cars right up to the 55 MPH speed limit as they go to the Golf course on the weekend (taking care not to spill the coffee next to them) and as to the minority...

There is and will always be the subset of FCar owner that tracks their car with religion. To these owners I say provide the car. I think the marketing justification is sound.. thus the GT2 and GT3. If anything a "Halo" car..
WWED (What Would Enzo Do)?

 

How many Scuderia owners track their cars vs. 911 GT3/GT3 RS guys?
And is it because, as you say, the GT3 RS is more "track-able" or are the Porsche guys more in to trackdays than the Ferrari crowd?

1. On the topic of Ferrari gone soft (daily driver FF, California, 599), as long as they keep making the likes of Challenge Stradales and 430 Scuderia, I'm fine with it... As WILLIAM H mentioned in another thread (Ross' new F40), we want these cars to excite us, picking up milk with a Ferrari just doesn't do it.

2. Also, to me personally, Ferrari is a lot about exclusivity: the stripped out versions are much rarer to spot and therefore also much more attractive.

3. Like Porsche 911's; if you spot one regular Porsche or Ferrari you really do not know if the driver is an enthusiast or if he's just another status hunter (doctor, lawyer, whatever)... But every time you spot a guy in a 911 GT3 RS or a lightweight Ferrari, you just know that this guy LOVES cars and driving.

 

Well, a recent porsche commercial shows a MILF picking up 2 small boys at school in a fly yellow 911 Turbo...

458 scud with a gallon of milk cup holder?

sure... there will always be a small niche market for these cars.
Most people associate names like Porsche and Ferrari with track cars. Don't know how many track guys really want an Aston (no axe to grind here, Aston makes works of art, not really cars!). Lotus changed the track mind set, as you could buy a new, lightweight, bare bones machine for not a ton of money, and no waiting list.

 

I think Porsche has the edge now with the GT2 and GT3 RS. Ferrari seems to be focused on heavier touring cars (FF, 599, California) for an older customer base.

Given the number of F430 Scuderias/16Ms on the secondary market, I don't know whether there's a market for a 'stripper' Ferrari. From what I have seen it seems like Porsche makes serious track tools to win trophies and Ferrari makes serious trophies.

 

That is a great line!

Dale

 

+1, and seriously describes the two manufacturers perfectly.

Pete

 

A Scud loses value if used as intended and it seems that many owners are more concerned with resale than use.

 

I always think about buying a 355 Challenge car.
Not because it is all that fast or powerful but because it is so "old school".
No paddle shifting, bare interior, roll bar, racing harness, etc.

Given my limited track skills, I figure this would be a lot of fun for the money.

 

Sic transit gloria Maranello.

Oh well. The upside is that perhaps an ordinary enthusiast like me can get into a real track Ferrari sooner than expected if their market prices are lower.

Still a mildly depressing thought...

 

Best bang for for your buck!

 

Exactly. +1

Picking up the milk with my exotic does not bother me at all!. At least I can enjoy it everyday, I can feel its power, listen to its sound and look at its sexy curves and its beautiful design. Life would not be as enjoyable without such a daily pleasure. Carpe diem

 

Jim, it appears at least two things are going on. First, as Ferrari keeps increasing production, it has to market cars that appeal outside its traditional base.

Second, Ferrari super cars may have gotten, well, too super for even the above average driver. When I take my base Porsche Cayman to the track, for example, I am laughing the whole way. Yeah, it only has 280 odd ponies. But coupled with the PDK, it is a hoot to drive. You keep the throttle pinned, until you brake like a mad man, pitch the car in and it wants to go ever faster. But I don't think I'd drive a base F599 the same way. I could be wrong, but I probably wouldn't be "pinning the throttle to the floor" in that car. (Although I'd love to find out if anyone wants to volunteer a car.)

I dunno. Even Porsche has problems with the resale values of the CGT, which I understand can run rings around a GT3. Maybe it is a money thing. Those with the dough to buy a Ferrari super car are normally not crazy enough to run even 9/10s.

Interesting times.

Dale

 

This is a wonderful discussion. One question related to the track use of the cars, how expensive is it to run a Porsche , e.g GT3 vs a Ferrari, e.g Scud? My perception is the latter is much more expensive. While many "can afford it", they may not want to "waste it". My perception has been that the Porsches have always (last couple of decades at least) been more track oriented for the "common" man.

Robert

 

Does anyone have some fotos and info on these astons? Suprised to hear that they will offer hardcore track model for street. Are they from aston directly or zagato specials?

 

This is just my worthless .02, but there is a reason Ferrari spends a zillion dollars focusing on the tone of their engines.

Ferrari supercars have become pure theater. They snap, crackle, pop, shoot flames, have fancy F1 simulated switches, stripped out interiors and race stripes...

and then a relatively generic looking Porsche drives by and steals its lunch.

I love Ferraris for what they are, but they are not really serious about building legitimate track cars for the street, if they were, you would be seeing cars more like the venerable F40, and we are not.

Porsche takes racing very seriously, and it is reflected in all of their sports models. There is a reason they are so loved within the amateur racing community. You can beat on a Porsche all weekend, clean the bugs off the windshield an drive it to work on Monday. I'll tell ya, I recently got my first Porsche and I am simply stunned by how good a car it is. Sure a Ferrari, any Ferrari, will put a bigger smile on my face, but when it comes to needing a precision instrument to get the job done, you want a Porsche...When you want to have a great f-ing time, feel like Michael Schumacher, and laugh your butt off while this ridiculous engine screams behind you...its Ferrari time.

Personally, I think life is too short as it is, I don't race, and I put a premium on the driving experience over raw numbers, which is why I will always own a Ferrari.

 

Wow i did not see that coming from a/m at all! Hope they trim weight so about 3000 lbs and 500 hp vs gto 4000 lbs and 650 hp

I just sold my gt3 this week and will miss it on track days but porsche reputation is better than porsche reality when it comes to engineering. There are major issues with lsd, radiator hose clamps, rms and more on any porsches that get tracked and factory will not always honor warantee either. I think ferrari does an amazing job with cs, scud

Will always be more porsches than ferraris at track days just like more on street.

 

I particularly like this detail of the fender>
IMHO 19 isn't nearly enough considering they found 62 victims for the other monstrosity AM have been vigorously flogging at probably more than double the price of the new Z.
CH
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Those daring young men in their flying machines!
CH