How to keep control of the 348 in a spin?

So for the second time now I've lost the ass end of my 348. The first time I completely lost it (180) on a highway on ramp and just missed the ditch. Yesterday was the second and although I regained control it was very awkward - once the tail starts to slide I find this car very unforgiving. I know a few guys here track and race their 348's. How about a few tips on keeping the behind of the 348 behaved?

 

keep the power on dont lift in the corner, when you lift it transfers the weight to the front .

 

Have you tried, I don't know... maybe slowing down?

 

Upgrade to a 355, you wont regret it.

 

Consider signing up for DE and gain experience with the car and its limits in a controlled environment with qualified instructors, and learn how to control the car at the limit. Public roads are not a good place to experiment with your car and its limits.
Jes

 

And upgrade to 18" wheel with a wider rear tract. As far downgrading to a 355 dont forget the hair gel if you do.

 

As far as the safety factor, any spirited driving on public roads is always very selective. Very little to no traffic. Unfortunately, we have very few tracks in my part of the world.

As far as the 355 goes, is it that much better mannered?

 

I'm with Jes. Save it for the track. If you are spinning you lost control a long time ago. I do race and have raced a 348. When I spin I'm not thinking about regaining control. I'm thinking about damage control. After the spin I think about what lead up to the spin and controling that. It is about loosing focus, loosing awareness, and underestimating something about the track surface. I don't believe you learn the limits by spinning or puting 4 wheels off because you can't learn anything by just going along for a ride over which you have no control. But you sure can look like an idot. I do not want to be "that guy".

 

You might check the library for a book on High Performance Driving as a start. A good understanding of chassis dynamics, etc. will go a long way toward training your brain.
It's been 30 years since I've spun one around on an entrance ramp. Lotus Esprit. As long as there's plenty of runoff area, I see no reason why not! Isn't that what they're for?

 

Steering into the slide is the correct thing to do once the tail steps out. Keep the throttle feathered to avoid excess weight transfer and to keep the rear tires from acting as brakes. The most important thing to remember is to not overcorrect because that second wag of the tail (in the opposite direction) is nearly impossible to stop.


Rob

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. The closest animal I've had to the 348 was a supercharged mr2 - it had a very predictable rear end. This 348 is a little different.

Bruce - you too on a entrance ramp? Haha. I'm glad no one saw me, my heart was bouncing off red line.

 

Amen!

Been there. Got the "snap oversteer" T-Shirt. Thankfully the only thing bruised was my ego.

Don't want to go there again...I'm now way-less agressive on the throttle while turning....remember the 348 is a very well powered analog car...no traction control...nothing. nada. zip

Great fun, but will also bite you in the a$$ big time if you don't treat her right!

 

Do yourself a favor and widen the rear track a bit. You can do this with spacers or a different wider set of rear tires and rims.. I used to have snap over-steer issues on the OEM rubber. That went away after switching to F355 wheels with a 275 rear tire. The car feels a bit more sure footed now as well.

--Mike

 

I'd always heard the 348's were known for coming unglued in the rear ends...

Isn't that exactly what the 25mm rear wheel spacers are supposed to correct? Ferrari itself even added this "fix" for the Serie Speciale and the Spiders.

Are you running the spacers? If not, it might be a good idea to give Ricambi a call.

 

Its on the list.

 

A question that hasn't been asked...What kind of rubber are you spinning? I've driven PZero's, Vredenstein's, and now Toyo's. I loved the Vredenstein's which were very predictable and HATED the Pirelli's which tended to let go all of the sudden. I'm getting used to the Toyo's but wouldn't recommend them. They seem to react a bit suddenly also.

 

There is a pecular hand-eye coordination required in "mass centralized" mid engined cars. The 348 and F355 have this mass centralization (246, 308, 327, 360, 430 do not). Having the radiators in the engine bay reduces the polar moment and allows the car to turn quickly, it also (and simultaneously) allows external forces to turn the car (quickly). Your mind has to be at speed before the car is at speed.

You should be looking far down the road, far enough that you can see and feel the car comming up on the slip angles of the tires before you go over the top of the tire tractioin curves. As you come up on the tire slip angles, you can feel the steering lighten (that is if you are not clinching the steering wheel with a death grip.)

So, you have to have your mind in gear and feel the slide before it becomes a spin and steer into the slide (steering both quickly and (A.N.D) smoothly), hold onto the throttle input to keep the weight ballance the same and given time the car will come out of the slide. You have to know how much road you have for the car to come out of the slide B.E.F.O.R.E you E.N.T.E.R the slide, and this is another place where looking down the road farther helps. If you wait until the tail end is out you have already lost it, and are just along for the ride.

The only place where learning the quick, smooth, mind-in-gear driving style is on a race track.

 

BS Potenzas.

I have heard the pirellis hold like mad... until they let go...

 

Very very interesting. I will get to a track next spring for a few days... Can't wait to get a chance to experiment in a controlled environment.

 

Troy, be careful. As a favorite driving instructor of mine likes to say: "A spin is a crash, just without the loud noise at the end."

You have gotten lucky twice now. And I don't say that to be a jerk. I say it because I've been where you are, and I have friends in wheelchairs because they made similar mistakes.

As others here have said, when you come off the throttle, there is a lot of weight transfer to the front. If you come off the gas quickly, for instance in a panic, that will lead to a rapid transfer of a lot of weight, and a spin can happen.

That's what is meant by snap oversteer. You can experiment with different tires, spacers, etc. But more important is to understand the words above. Skip Barber and other schools have something called a car control clinic. You can learn how to induce a spin, and then catch it. But more importantly you learn how to avoid it.

I don't think you should be experimenting like this on the street. You could get hurt. No matter how frightening the sight picture, you need to train yourself to breathe, or feather as another poster here said, out of the throttle. You shouldn't snap out of it.

Right now your car has much higher capability than you. You need some training. Look far ahead, and look where you want to go.

 

Your point is well received. Just to clarify, I'm not a habitual mad man at the wheel type of fellow, but I do occasionally enjoy playing with this machine on carefully selected, nicely cornered back roads that are usually unpopulated. I live in the country, if you guys could see some of these roads you'd be saying hell yeah - givvr.

 

A good piece of advice I received once:
As soon as you get a new car, take it to a safe area and drive it in circles faster and faster until it spins. That way you'll know how it feels just before it spins. That's the limit. Don't go past that. Try it again and when you approach very near the limit, lift off the gas. See what happens. Then again and at the same speed as before, give it a little gas. See what happens. Then you can practice feathering, Slowly lifting. You'll feel it "getting up on the tires" and actually feel the tire patch on the pavement thru your butt and hands. The feathering then becomes a fun car control feeling and you can move the rear of the car around with the throttle.
I call it "getting to know you" with my car.

 

Here's an idea out of left field... you could perhaps get some time in a go-kart. Not the slow ones at "Adventure Lands" that do 15mph, I'm thinking the 60-70mph ones that have enough power to spin the rear wheels if you're hammer-footed coming onto the straight and going quickly enough to lock the brakes into turn 1 if you don't have the finesse for slowing yourself down.

Many F1 drivers learned their craft for car control with go-karts, and go-karting is what Michael Schumacher decided to go do when it was time to brush up on his racing skills prior to an F1 return.

All the best,
Andrew.
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This.....order the spacers with the longer bolts (although some tracks don't allow them??) and get your alignment set up to optimal.

Find a shop that knows 348s specifically they will understand it..

Drive safe man....

 

ive been driving mid engine cars for some time now...they all act very "unpredictable" once the rear end lets loose...until you know what to feel for, then they become predictable

fight the instinct to let off the throttle..instead apply throttle...

google jeremy clarksons lotus elise test drive....watch him drive the car then watch the lotus test driver...lift snap oversteer my friend...