any quick fixes for worn bores/rings | FerrariChat
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any quick fixes for worn bores/rings

Discussion in '206/246' started by bertspeed, May 30, 2011.

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  1. bertspeed

    bertspeed Formula Junior

    Sep 19, 2009
    308
    #1 bertspeed, May 30, 2011
    I have a fiat dino 2lt coupe that has worn bores and/or pistons/rings,(my assumption based on smokey engine that has new valves and stem seals).I dont really want to get involved with a full rebuild because once I start it will have to be very thorough and include the body ,all mechanicals ,interior etc and it will end up being un-economic,far easier and cheaper to buy another good car.Are there any quick fixes .
     
  2. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    #2 swift53, May 30, 2011
    1. No.
    2. Buy more oil.
    3. If you smoke like "Uncle Buck's" Caddy and are embarrassed by it, see #1

    Regards, Alberto
     
  3. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike Rambour
    #3 mikeyr, May 30, 2011
    is it oil smoke or white smoke from water ?

    Either way, you are in for some mechanical work and its not that bad, especially on the coupe. Super easy to pull the motor on the FIAT versions of the Dino's (not that hard on the real Dino's either but really easy on the FIAT's).

    You really can do engine work without all the other work you know :)

    What is the compression like ?
     
  4. bertspeed

    bertspeed Formula Junior

    Sep 19, 2009
    308
    #4 bertspeed, May 30, 2011
    After looking at some previous notes the compression readings were after 10 minutes of warming up and throttles fully open 10.4,10.4,10.6,10.8.10.0,10.2 which is about 145-155 psi.I will see if I have better figures which include adding some oil down the bores.The thing I remember when the heads were off is the bores were quite glazed ,they didnt have much cross hatching marks and also virtually no wear step at top ring position on the bores.
     
  5. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 20, 2004
    40,487
    Purgatory
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    Clifford Gunboat
    #5 UroTrash, May 30, 2011
    Have some PRIDE and rebuild it, MAN!
     
  6. bertspeed

    bertspeed Formula Junior

    Sep 19, 2009
    308
    #6 bertspeed, May 31, 2011
    These were the latest compression readings done with some oil down the bores,168.2,156.3,156.4,156.5,160.6,156.0 which I understand are not that way off .Does anyone have any ideas as to what would be causing the excessive smoke which does have the blue tinge to it and not just black
     
  7. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Alberto
    #7 swift53, May 31, 2011
    Have you done a 'leak down' test?

    Regards, Alberto
     
  8. bertspeed

    bertspeed Formula Junior

    Sep 19, 2009
    308
    #8 bertspeed, May 31, 2011
    Hi Alberto,no I havent done a leakdown test but its got new valves ,guides (reamed out on the tight side),recut seats and new stem seals and new head gaskets so I`m thinking it is likely to be worn rings/bores or at best just glazed bores.
     
  9. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
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    Mike Rambour
    #9 mikeyr, May 31, 2011
    that is a good assumption, but you know what "assume" means right ?

    cylinder leak down test is easy, the gauge is cheap and it will confirm what you are assuming.

    On the good side you have already done the heads so the bottom half is easy. Your compression does not indicate this but at this point it could something as simple as valve timing being off a little, but your compression seems too even for that.
     
  10. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
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    Ross
    #10 It's Ross, May 31, 2011
    Rings and a bottle brush hone job if not too much taper in the bores.
    A million taxis can't be wrong.
     
  11. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    4,202
    Norfolk - UK
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    Tony
    #11 TonyL, Jun 1, 2011
    Has it stood for some time?

    A good friend of mine suggests that you put redx down the bores and leave overnight, it could be stuck oil scraper ring/s

    Leave spark plugs out andleave for 24 hrs , turn engine over to clear oil. refit plugs and try it Nothing to lose

    Tony
     
  12. dino clay

    dino clay Karting

    Oct 31, 2007
    185
    san mateo, cal
    Full Name:
    clay cavanaugh
    #12 dino clay, Jun 1, 2011
    You tighten up the cylinder head, raise the compression and the engine smokes.If you have many miles, this is why the the motor is burning oil. Change the rings, reseal the engine and you will have many happy miles. brush honing is very acceptable practice. Unfortunately, you need complete gaskets and have to R&R engine, remove pistons, CLEAN ring grooves, check timing chains and chain guide rails but it is money well spent and almost fun as detailing is cheep and gratifying

    good luck

    clay
     
  13. bertspeed

    bertspeed Formula Junior

    Sep 19, 2009
    308
    #13 bertspeed, Jun 2, 2011
    I dont know if it stood for a long time prior to my ownership,but there was no real evidence of this.Do you have any more details of the redx /redex ? quoted as my searches found different stuff.
    regards Roberto
     
  14. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,071
    Savannah
    #14 thecarreaper, Jun 2, 2011
    Marvel Mystery oil, and drive the car.
     
  15. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Michael
    #15 msdesignltd, Jun 2, 2011
    Thats like asking/ telling the Doc..
    I only have 10 days to live, can you get me 20.....
     
  16. dino clay

    dino clay Karting

    Oct 31, 2007
    185
    san mateo, cal
    Full Name:
    clay cavanaugh
    #16 dino clay, Jun 2, 2011
    Marvel Mystery oil. That should be your first attempt. The stuff really works and it might buy you some time to save up for the ring job. Not cheap. You will find that cyl wall taper is minimum on most blocks of this type, by that I mean you will not feel a ridge at the top of the bore as you would on some us blucks of that vintage. A typical chevy 6 or similar low hp block w/low pressure high volume oil supply could be rerung w/0.015 taper at the top of the bore and run w/out any oil consumption for another 30/40K

    Clay
     
  17. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    8,369
    Cincinnati Ohio
    #17 ilconservatore, Jun 2, 2011
    Well if you could take a dose of Mystery oil and get 10 extra days, you would...wouldn't you? :)
     
  18. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
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    Mike Rambour
    #18 mikeyr, Jun 4, 2011
    My Dino smoked like Uncle Buck's Mercury Grand Marquis when I first bought my car, it had sat for between 12 and 15 years, it took a good hundred miles but not a hint of any smoke now. I used Marvel Mystery oil along with 2 oil changes in the first 100 miles, I was only trying to make it smoke less while I scrounged up the parts and money to rebuild it. A good 20,000 miles on the car since then and no smoke, the motor was not as bad as I thought :)

    One day, it just stopped smoking and ran noticeably better, had stuck rings.
     

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