Trouble at Lotus-Renault | FerrariChat

Trouble at Lotus-Renault

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Jun 2, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,751
    Lotus Cars to Shed Almost 100 Workers at Headquarters, Sky Says


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-02/lotus-cars-to-shed-almost-100-workers-at-headquarters-sky-says.html


    Group Lotus Plc, the British sports- car maker, is cutting almost 100 workers at its Norfolk, eastern England, headquarters, where it has about 1,200 staff, Sky News reported, citing the company.
    In April, the company failed to win a 27.5 million-pound ($45 million) loan from the U.K.’s Regional Growth Fund it planned to use to fund an expansion to its Hethel, Norfolk, manufacturing plant, Sky said.


    Lotus 'could be sold'


    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/257478/

    Going forward, Bahar believes that a company the size of Lotus cannot develop cars that meet stringent emission and crash regulations on its own.
    Although it’s owned by Proton, Bahar says Lotus’s products are too far removed for this to be a real help. He sees a tie-up with, or sale to, another maker (perhaps Toyota) as an exit strategy for Proton and the other investors in the plan. Alternatively, the company could be floated.




    Where does that leave the 'Lotus' Renault F1 team?
    We were led to believe that Group Lotus was not only the main sponsor, but part owner with Genij of the ex-Renault F1 team.
     
  2. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,650
    Vegas baby
    The problem is the Evora.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I hope they fnck off. All these teams that are in F1 as somesort of marketing exercise need to fnck off and go and play somewhere else.

    If you are not in it for racing sakes then you have no place in F1.

    Love to see half the teams just disappear so we could seriously devalue Bernies investment and hopefully he would fnck off too. Then we might return to real racing!!
    Pete
     
  4. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,166
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    The problem is Bahar.

    (Although the Evora is a flop too).

    Joe Saward wrote a great summary of the latest Bahar fiasco:
    http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/a-log-jam-at-renault-f1/

    It seems that Bahar was roasted by his Proton bosses for suggesting (above) that Lotus needed to hook up with a "major car manufacturer" - Proton considers itself to be a major car manufacturer. Bahar is really screwing up Lotus, and I bet he will leave Proton with no option but to sell them off. His overly ambitious plans to take Lotus waaay up market, to introduce 5 new models in a much too short time frame, his stupid war with Fernandes in F1 and the very expensive sponsorship commitment with Renault, are all the misguided screwups of an egomaniac without a clue. With any luck, Proton will show Bahar the door sooner than later and allow Lotus to be sold (without Bahar's interference, it would likely be to Fernandes) to a company that will reset the Lotus direction to one that the market will actually support.

     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,149
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    What a sad mess for a great name. I hope Lotus can be consolodated and the car company be back in F-1.
     
  6. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,476
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    I'm very happy. I hope they crash and burn.
     
  7. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,193
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Anthony T
    Gordon, excellent post. I watched an interview with Bahar and he came across as an arrogant jerk.
     
  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,650
    Vegas baby
    I don't know the man but most people buy a car and the brand, not the guy running the show.

    The Evora isn't selling. It needed to and now Lotus is unfortunately paying the price.
     
  9. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    72,597
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    The "market analysts" strike again.

    The Colin Chapman formula is "simplificate and add lightness".
    Building a larger 2+2 "Lotus" is like a Ferrari SUV or a Rolls sports car -- it's playing against type.
    What idiot told Lotus they needed to build a "bigger car"?

    Now if they'd come up with a modernized Lotus 7 ...
     
  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,811
    Well, in the good ole days of Colin Chapman they made the Elite and the Eclat.

    Without much success, must be told.
     
  11. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
    3,616
    Perth
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Its called the "Elise" :) - which even comes in a version that makes the 7 look soft - the 2-Eleven.

    There is a very limited market for cars that focussed (just look at Lotus and Caterham sales) so for Lotus to expand it needs to go up (can't go down).

    Lotus failed to win cash from the government because they, rightfully, said "you've got money to sponsor an F1 team - you don't need government money". Be a different story if they were more than just a sponsor I suspect.


    PS: The Evora was designed and in production before Dany Bahar joined the company so you can't blame him for that!
     
  12. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    72,597
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    And Lotus is positioned to dominate that market segment.

    Trying to break into another segment is like becoming another new start-up. Huge risk.

    Would you run out to buy a Rolls runabout or a Yugo SUV? How about a Fiat Limo? No matter how good it might be, the market is going to view it with suspicion.

    And if your factory has been cranking out featherweights, just how good would you be at making a limo? You have a workforce experience gap.

    Not every marque has to sell to "every home in America". ;)

    Sometimes it's better to be the big wheel in your neighborhood than to get lost in someone else's.

    (Case in point: Fiat-ized FWD Alfas --- just a Camry in Italian shoes. :p)

    Expansion opportunities within Lotus' "niche" examples:
    A variation on the Elise or Exige with a "traffic tolerant" body shell (rather than brittle CF).
    Building a good 1200cc engine for a lightweight car (what with fuel prices and all).
    (Also racing kart and feeder series engine sales. ;))
     
  13. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
    Owner

    Dec 13, 2005
    2,290
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    Curtis Campbell
    Yes we can, its the internet!

    Truly a mess for such a well respected name in the history of motorsports.
     
  14. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    +1

    It certainly appears that this Bahar dude has royally screwed up just about everything he's been involved with......

    Given the loss of the court case I reckon they're in deep doo-doo - Proton must be pissed every time they see the car with Renault all over iT! :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  15. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    6,082
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #15 Mark(study), Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
    Make the Elise a little bigger so I can get in and out with the top on... and all Lotus fans really wanted was a new Esprit.... when they announced 5 new models as a business plan, we knew this company had jumped the shark.
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    Not necessarily, some of us wanted a return of the Europa (with modern engine and transmission technology)
     
  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,650
    Vegas baby
    Funny I had the same feeling. It was like begging for some kind of attention instead of being focused and credible.

    I think they did it to try to get government loans. It didn't work.
     
  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,650
    Vegas baby
    #18 TheMayor, Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
    That would include me.

    If you look at what McLaren is doing, they are really focused. And, they are stealing Lotus' thunder and philosophy.
     
  19. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,507
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    The mess they came up with a few years ago with all those supposed new cars didnt help. They had 5 new cars that very few people wanted. I love Lotus, love the Esprit, the Elan, the Elise and must say the Evora is much better to drive than to look at (Go tell that to a Porsche Boxster type Market). But why come up with 5 new cars that are completely different than what you are selling?
     
  20. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
    32,110
    In the flight path to Offutt
    Full Name:
    The original Fernando

    Then Ferrari would not be racing, as F1 is their only real marketing tool, and they would be the FIRST to go under your guidelines.
     
  21. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
    32,110
    In the flight path to Offutt
    Full Name:
    The original Fernando
    You are comparing apples to oranges, two different companies, and McLaren has 'money' behind it, something Lotus never really had, kinda like Jensen, Bricklin, et al.
     
  22. ELP_JC

    ELP_JC Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2008
    1,264
    The first thing I remember hearing about the Evora is that it had a Camry engine. Then saw the photos and looked like crap. I thought no way that's going to sell, especially at those prices. Sorry to hear I was right. I honestly don't see the appeal of current Lotus cars, but I'm not a track junkie :). Guess that's the only place where they shine.
     
  23. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Jun 23, 2003
    100,524
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Peter
    I can see I'm on my own here, but I really like the look of the Evora.
     
  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,650
    Vegas baby

    I saw it when it first came to the LA Auto show about 3 years ago and I thought it was the best looking car at the show.

    The problem is that it just doesn't have the performance to go with it. They were trying to go after the 911 market with the 2 + 2. Very few considering a 911 would jump to a Lotus. It's just too much of a niche.

    And, it doesn't help when they themselves say that the new Evora S is "the car they always wanted to make". It kinda shows that they weren't that happy with it themselves in the first place.
     
  25. Sellnit

    Sellnit Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2010
    975
    Cincinnati
    Full Name:
    James
    Lotus is a niche auto maker, they should stay there and be happy with making a profit in this niche. Growing outside of where you are comfortable is A) Expenseive, and B) rarely works. Why did Ford sell Jag and LR? LR was profitable but they sold to focus on their core, and what do you know, they are making money again, possibly a horrible analogy but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

    BTW Bahar's ego is not a good fit for Lotus, I hope Tony ends up with it, at least he is passionate about F1. making money, and making Lotus great!
     

Share This Page