R12 or R134 AC

R134 blows warmer. If you want the coldest possible a/c stay with R12 or just forget the whole thing.

 

I literally just started this thread last week or so...

Here it is: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323734

It sounds like the real issue is the displacement of cold air from the dash; not "cold vs colder".

That is what needs to be addressed.

 

He has been my favorite since birth!

I suppose some have. You need to get things out of the way to R&R the belts so unless they just happen to have a scavenger machine (or whatever it is called, I have no earthly idea) to suck it out and recharge it, it will be going to a shop.

So for the DIY guys here, it's either no charge in the lines, no lines at all or pay a pro for that particular mantenance.

 

Your system was designed around R12. R134a systems operate at higher pressures and those systems (new cars) are designed to operate with that refrigerant.

If you put in R134, the system will not be as cold.

Use R12. The system is barely adaquate as is so don't compromise it by using the wrong refrigerant.

 

My mechanic talked me into converting to R134. The refrigerant is 100 times less expensive and mine is working well so far.

 

As long as it's available, use R12.

 

Cost is bogus. A licensed pros buys a 30 pound bottle which will service 15 to 20 vehicles. Assuming he is out of R-12 having no R-12 customer's in five years he may dislike spending $1000 for product he can't recover on you. Call around for another a/c mechanic.

And they often redirect you to 134 because they don't have a currently certified R-12 'scavenger' machine because vintage a/c calls have become infrequent.

 

R12 isn't really all that expensive; you can get it easily on Ebay. The issue, as noted, is that a lot of shops aren't equipped to deal with it since it is no longer common. But 134 is less efficient and requires a larger condenser than R12 for the same performance.

I have come to the conclusion that the reports of how well a 328 system cools is totally based on the individual and the location. Some folks (me, for one) likes the cabin quite cold; others do not. An ac system that might work just fine for me in July in Great Falls, MT would be totally inadequate in Memphis TN from May through September.

My 328 cools fairly well using Duracool, a propane-based refrigerant. It has essentially the same operating characteristics as R12 - actually a tad more efficient - and it costs the same as 134. It will make the cabin reasonably cool for me in sunny, mid-90s/high humidity days; R134 did not. Even so I would prefer it somewhat cooler and if the day is overcast, it can actually get the temp down to where I want it.

In that mid-90 day, the evaporator temp is a bit under 50 degrees - a 40 degree temp drop which is about as good as any ac unit can do under any conditions. My wife's MB, using 134 on the same day has an evap temp of nearly 60 degrees but since the car has the capacity to flow a LOT more air, the cabin can be cooled to whatever temp you want.

The difficulty with non-standard refrigerants like Duracool is that most shops will not install them - though some do. There are also legal issues involved in some states so if you are in one of those states, shops are not permitted to install it. Generally, the non-standard (usually propane-based) refrigerants are the province of the DIY ac tech, which I recommend becoming.

Based on your post it sounds to me like the car currently has R12 in it. I think you would be best to put R12 in it again. But if you have it converted to 134, be sure they change the Orings, the drier, and the expansion valve. Otherwise you will have problems due to the incompatibility of the oils in the two refrigerants. Ideally, the compressor oil should be changed as well. If the car has already been converted in the past to 134, I would go ahead and have it recharged with 134 and see how it works for you. You may find it adequate depending on your location and personal preference. In either case I would replace the drier and exp valve to ensure you are "starting fresh." Duracool is compatible with either 12 or 134 so there is no issue with the oil if you decided to go with Duracool and could find someone to install it. I ASSUME the other propane-based refrigerants are also compatible with 12/134 but Duracool is the only one I am familiar with and have used.

 

I probably wouldn't have a problem with 134 if I lived in northern California.

You would be unhappy with it if you lived here.