Question for F1 owners

Steve- Have you changed your F1 relay recently? If not, I believe Juri has an upgraded Tyco relay superior to the original at a better price.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Steve- Here is Juri's ad. He also sells motors for the F1 pumps that are tougher than the originals and cheaper than buying a new pump. The OEM relay tends to get hot and fail.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=4141

The F1 relay is a known 355, 360, and early 575M fail problem. Here is the location of 155437, F1 pump motor relay. Ricambi has the OEM relays, but they are up to ~$110 now.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?V=diag&I=1471

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

i have had the same problem and currently in the process of installing the 360 pump with the HE adapter

my mechanic is now investigating the solenoid on the top right hand side of the unit

i have NOT investigated the relay option
and i will speak with my mechanic tomorrow

has it actually FIXED the flashing? by just changing the relay?

 

Steve, MW- A new relay has fixed many F1 pump related problems, but no guarantees. The problem was so bad Ferrari replaced the 30 amp relay with a 50 amp relay in the 2003 timeframe on both the 360/CS and 575M. Unfortunately, the 50 amp relay does not match the 30 amp relay connector.

Note relays are not safety devices like a fuse. The system still has a 30 amp fuse for safety. You could fit a 100 amp relay and it would not compromise safety, because the 30 amp fuse would still do that job. Fitting an overspecced relay is never a problem. Fitting a heavier rated fuse is always a problem.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

thanks a lot
excuse my ignorance but how can i check if my relay is bad or not?
is there a way to test it?
i ask because i wish to speak with my mechanic with the most information i can gather beforehand

 

The relay should be changed proactively every few years just to be safe...it's much cheaper than a pump! I *thought* the problem was the relay would stick 'on' and the pump would run continuously, leading to a failure.

One thing to check is how well the system holds pressure. Before starting turn the key so it pressurizes, you'll hear the pump turn off. Then time how long it takes for the pump to kick on again, if pressure drops to a certain level it triggers the pump to run. I'm not sure what the time should be exactly...but I seem to recall maybe 30 seconds or so? I could check mine for comparison...

 

Jay- The relay contacts actually welding themselves together and the pump running continuously until it burns out is definitely one of the symptoms of a failing relay. Here is hoping Steve may have caught it before that happens.

If that is not the problem, like you said, that relay needs to be regularly replaced, and it is one less thing about which to worry.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Am I missing something here....the 155437 = ABS pump control pump relay (item 13).

Same relay perhaps...just different location?

Thanks....just trying to learn the details.

 

Watson- Go here, download 355 WSM. ferraridatabase.com. Go through Ricambi's online catalog.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&V=model&I=15

Not sure what you are asking.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

Steve, I have been having similar symptoms with my '98 355F1. At first I thought the transmission was erratically shifting poorly, then back to normal, then poorly again. Most evident by a reluctance to engage reverse, then a harsh "clunk" and creeping when the gear finally engaged. I finally figured out that this was related to high under hood temps. Could be seen on hot days, or when a lot of stop and go traffic (and hence little air movement under the hood), or when a lot of hydraulic "work" was asked of the system. This could be shifting a lot in rapid succession, or even could be idling for an extended period of time (when the clutch must be clamped even though the car is stopped, also of course made worse by the stationary hot air under hood).

In the process of figuring this out, I looked at the clutch disc (lots of it left). I had the hydraulic system bled. Still had the problem intermittently. Finally realized the heat-related pattern, and mentioned this to my tech. His immediate thought was same as my growing thought: I'm seeing heat-soak with the hydraulic pump, probably indicating early pump failure. I do not have a Challenge grill, by the way.

So, with this information, I have purchased a Hill adaptor and a 360 pump, as well as a new relay (old relay was a couple years old). Haven't had the pump installed yet, but then now that I know the issue, I have been avoiding as much as possible overheating situations, and the car has been fine. I replaced the relay, but that hasn't made any difference, just ruled that out as my issue. Still, I'll be getting the new pump installed soon, as I know it's only a matter of time until it gets hot here (SoCal).

Watson, yes that is the relay, and yes, it is the same as the ABS relay. The relays originally installed in the cars were designed to stay on when the electrodes inside them overheated and fused. This led to the pump being continually on, and thus burning out. The newer syle relay, which Juri is selling, turns the pump off when it burns out. You're stranded in that situation, but pump is saved. Save the old relay, store it in the car for such occasion.

Good luck Steve. If you do need a new pump, at least Hill has come up with a cost-effective solution.

John

 

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Thanks, I have the WSM's and read through the diagrams on Ricambi constantly. Both excellent resources for sure.

Just curious on the call out of the 155437 relay on the page you linked to.
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The same relay has been used on several Ferraris as an ABS relay, which, as you correctly interpreted, stays for Anti-Lock Brake System relay. The old relay has been known to fail in that application even more frequently, as the number and frequency of on-off cycles during the activation of anti-lock breaking system is relatively high.

 

Thanks for the confirmation.... Ordered two relays from you just this AM. One goes in when it arrives, the other on the shelf.

Looks like I'll add that to my list of things to do during each engine out service.

Learning a little each day.

 

Sounds like you might be in for a pump replacement also. Still would get the new relay, as it has a safer default when it goes bad.

Funny thing about all my issues is that you first figure out how to drive the car so as not to burn through the clutch. Now I'm also learning the things that stress the pump motor also.

BTW, didn't mention originally that my car has 31k miles on it. What's the mileage on your car, Steve? Also, do you have a Challenge grill? Reason I ask those questions is that I'm wondering if the vented grill allows more airflow around the pump motor.

John

 

I agree with John: it sounds like you will need a new F1 pump pretty soon... As you may know Hill engineering has developed an adapter for installation of the F1 pump from 360F1 Modena. This new adapter is sold by Ricambi America along with the installation guidelines.
In addition to this adapter you will need that F1 pump from 360F1 (part #213264) sold by Ricambi for $800. Of course, you can find alternative sources of cheaper F1 pumps. Let me know if you have questions with the 360F1 modification of your 355F1 hydraulics system.

 

I'm on 47k miles, pump seems fine to me. Over my years of reading here, the pump rarely fails....

 

You maybe right regarding 355F1, but the 360F1 system fails quite frequently.
Out of curiosity, I did a Google search using phrase "F1 pump failure", that resulted in 2,330,000 hits...
Lots of additional interesting reading material...

Kind regards,
Juri.

 

You are correct about the location of this relay, which will be on its way to you shortly.
Cheers.