458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

Let's stipulate that the McLaren will post faster lap times on the circuits tested.

Does that make the articles in the UK press somehow "wrong", retro-actively?

Did the UK press make a huge blunder ... because they only declared the 458 as the winner in the comparison, in anticipation of faster lap times by the 458?

In short: what exactly about this discussion ... and what about the articles in the UK press ... changes, once lap times are posted?

 

No, it does not make the verdicts wrong at all. It's a question, again, what you want out of a car like that. Sense of occasion? the drama of the high-strung N/A engine? Ability to drift all over? That's Italia for you. Peerless DD experience? Feelsome steering? Unrivaled track performance (probably, we don't yet know)? That's Macca's brief.

Obviously, all of us want all those things, so it's an issue how you weigh it. Is it Ok for you if your high-performance exotic (with all its F1 heritage) is say 3-5 seconds behind on a track? It would bother me greatly since it would mean I was getting a toy, not a high-performance car (by current standards). 3-5 seconds is not a micro difference. It's a difference of one class. If I want to go drift around there are better cars than Italia for it.

On the other hand, if the Macca drives you around the track GTR-style, then it's pointless, too. Since you can do it at home on your playstation way cheaper.

 

simple, logical extension of your argument : all modern cars that are 3 seconds slower than a 458 on a track are mere toys, and not high-performance cars.

Is that what you really believe? Only the FASTEST track car in any price segment can be considered a high-performance machine, and ALL others are mere toys?

The ONLY metric to you that's important is track time ... and furthermore, it's all-or-nothing ... anything but the top, in this single metric, is a mere toy?

 

Not at all. It's not a single metric. That's why I talked about weighing the various issues. A dedicated track toy, which is unusable on the street is not a useful comparison at all. BUT, I want the top exotics to push the envelope of performance (while retaining their street usability). I don't want lazy marketing efforts coupled with dishonesty and obfuscation. I want top technology in the service of driving fun and performance.

On the other hand, if a difference on a track is on the order of 3-5 secs, that means that the car is a generation or two behind.

That's also why everybody here is getting rid of their 430's and getting Italia, even though, it's easily a more feelsome machine.

 

It's a dumb argument when none of us have driven both cars and most haven't driven either.

 

I think you're right.

 

Then you would agree, that it's possible for the 458 to be slower on a given track (or tracks), and still be judged as the better car ... in the minds of many experienced automotive enthusiasts? And their views would be equally as valid as those who hold laptime as the king of all metrics?

 

Grasping for straws are we? I suppose your idea of "slow" and ours is different.

Obviously, you can't tell the difference between a great driving experience and a clock.

Thankfully, some in the UK press can.

Let me give you a clue as to what is important:

Great driving experience (however you define that): Exciting

A few seconds faster on a track: Boring.


Hey, have you weighed the gas cap in the Mac yet? You know, it's 4.2 oz's LESS than the Ferrari! Ron Dennis personally stamped it worthy of McLaren. He insisted it not be plated because it would be 0.002 grams more if it were "shiney". Wooooo hoooooo!

 

Have you read what I wrote at all? I clearly said that lap times would not change those reviewers' opinions. However, i will be waiting with bated breath for all those experienced automotive enthusiasts to trade their Italias back for 430's, since the performance is sooo unimportant and it's all about feel. However, that wait will be shorter than the one, which sees Ferrari stop lying about the weight of their cars and stop cheating in comparison tests.

 

I can tell the difference. Scuderia offers one, Italia does not. It just sounds good.

Again, I understand that you don't care about track performance, which is fine, although why you traded your Spider for Italia is beyond me.

 

I'm not one for comparisons and who cares if one car is a few seconds faster than the other unless you are competitively racing around a track.

Nonetheless, it's pretty amazing the entry level Ferrari can even keep up with McLaren's top shelf car

A better level to level comparison would be the successor to the Enzo and the McLaren

 

What's amazing is that no street Ferrari ever produced can keep up with entry level McLaren (probably, we have not seen independent lap times yet)

 

There is no such thing as an entry level McLaren....what they make is all they got....1 car

Ferrari produces a line up of cars and the comparo is an entry level Ferrari to McLaren's best shot. Simple as that.

McLaren can strap an engine to a piece of poop and put their name on it. It will be pretty fast because poop is light...

 

It is the entry level McLaren, the follow-up to McLaren F1 (called mega Mac by Autocar) is supposed to be unveiled at Goodwood in two weeks.

You are right, it would be faster with poop, they chose instead carbon tub. I know pretty much as worthless.

 

It's not worthess. It just doesn't MATTER. Just like my computer has 600 GB of memory and yours has 800 GB. It's not important unless you're a computer geek.

As to your crack earlier about looking good and sounding good, why do people buy Apple? You don't think looking good and being cool is important to them? You don't think there are much better performaing products out there than Apple that don't sell 1/20 as well? So, are all those people idiots?

 

That's hilarious. As long as the engine blares loud enough, how light the car feels, how stiff it is, is simply irrelevant for sports cars. Yes, no connection between weight, stiffness, performance and feel. Again, the engine is loud enough. Tell Ferrari to stop cheating on tests and just crank up the volume. They will sell more.

I did not make any cracks about sound or looks. Those matter in supercar experience, but if the manufacturer focuses on this aspect to the exclusion of others, the point of the whole exercise is lost.

 

Congratulations. You have graduated. You are officially a troll.

Enjoy your Macca. Now, go back to Mc Life and tell everyone how smart you are and how stupid we are.

 

No, I like it here. I don't think you are stupid, just entertaining.

 

the OP posted the UK results on feel, and overall excitement. 458 won. hence, your carbon tub didn't win them over. Also amazing that you continue to rave about a car you have only read about....

 

You were entertaining. Now, it's just boring.

This thread could have been a really interesting discussion about why the results came out the way they did. But someone had to spoil it for the rest of us.

It was, a troll.

 

If you read the reviews, the only things they comment on are sound and throttle response (and looks). That's how Italia won those comparisons.

Well, I also sat in it once . I have my doubts, but I am hopeful. To me Italia was a large disappointment after the Scud, hence my insistence on annoying you guys.

 

Again, too funny: if you want to discuss it, by all means go ahead, you have not tried it yet.

 

Why should we? Everytime we start to discuss the merits of the 458 you insult us as being posers or somehow unknowledgable about how auto technology makes a better car or about how a "faster" car is a better car.

Then, when losing the argument, you go off into all kinds of silly tangents and bring up silly things we've argued a million billion times in the past.

That's what trolls do. They don't contribute anything. They just stir things up for their own amusement. At least you admit it. I'll give you that much.

 

you think way too much of yourself. please dont think that comments from a guy basing his opinion on a car he has only read about could possibly annoy me. I have many amazing privileges in my life that keep me happy to get annoyed by the banter, especially by a guy who gets off on annoying fellow F-Chatters....your family should be proud...

 

I keep up bringing old facts since incredibly enough the Ferrari-sown confusion is very effective and people fall for it over and over again (weight is a perfect example).

I don't go off on any tangents. I clearly discussed the reasons for the mag verdicts, but also why they are not necessarily very meaningful and what they miss and what they get right.

I come here to discuss the cars. I am not here to participate in a mutual admiration society and collective patting yourself on the back. If it bothers you, you can just tune me out.