458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

I'm yawning again. Where is my Red Bull?

I think I've found a fun thing for you to do.

Try walking into a gay bar and try to convince the patrons about the advantages of being straight. You'll have about as much success as trolling Fchat on how we should switch to a Mac.

 

Well, we did discover a couple new things in the discussion:
For majority of F-chatters:

1) Weight does not matter for sports cars
2) Carbon and aluminum are just two different life-style choices
3) Ferrari owners had moved en masse from 430 to Italia b/c of how feelsome and exciting the driving experience is, since power and speed do not matter.

I think these are worthwhile discoveries.

 

Read post 126

 

I thought you had no interest in the pointless discussion. It seems like a lot o work for being bored.

 

I'm trying to save others from this pointless discussion that just goes round and round and ends up nowhere. Do you cut and paste all of your posts?

 

Every single tester tells us that the McLaren is faster than the 458. Why do you need to see numbers? Do you want to brag about tenths of a second? Because that really is quite sad if you do.

 

I am here to compare 458 and Italia, the rest is of no interest to me.

Here's an independent weight measurement from Europe: 3524 lbs
http://www.mibz.com/16844-ferrari-458-italia-weighs-in-more-than-scuderia-declared.html

What my posts have been proven false? We might differ in opinions, but don't accuse me of lies unless you have evidence.

Carbon tubs are simply superior. There is no doubt about it in the motoring world. That's why also high end Ferraris were made of Carbon (like Enzo). Actually, if you have any doubts about weight, carbon etc, please read Ferrari press releases from 2007 and especially what they were saying about Mille Chilla. They clearly got lazy and took a short-cut on chassis technology. That does not diminish the great achievement that their engines are.

 

No, I want to see if the car can really get into 8's for 0-124. Since, quite frankly, I find it almost impossible. I also want to see actual numbers to see how honest and serious McLaren is. I am really tired of the obfuscating culture of Ferrari, where you have to be a detective to find out what their cars really weigh. I already told my dealer that if the weight claims turned to be less than truthful, I am pulling my deposit.

 

How utterly pointless.

 

Do you stay up constantly checking on all the threads you have no interest in? Shouldn't you be drinking your Red Bull?

 

I was all out. I had to go get one.

 

In the Autocar test they report that the Mclaren was only 20Kg lighter than the 458. Considering Ferrari (for some obscure reason) continue to put heavy exhausts and batteries in their cars you could a fair proportion of that weight in these two areas alone with an aftermarket exhaust and a gel battery.

 

I like that line.

 

For the 229k US MSRP the McLaren is HARD to beat. You get a ridiculous amount of car for the money. The biggest benefits are that there is no parts sharing with other manufacturers, the brand hasn't been as diluted as Ferrari(******bags walking around with Ferrari clothing, watches, laptops), and the technology is top of the line. I find it ironic that Ferrari guys are talking about stat padding. Ferrari is notorious for overstating their numbers vs actual performance. Plenty of US 458's are only dynoeing 450rwhp(25% power loss on rwd supercar??), the downforce numbers have already been proven to be utter BS as well, and the 458 is quite a heavy car. Lets face it, the McLaren is technologically and dynamically superior to the 458 and cheaper.

 

So, you guys were born with a Ferrari preference? No wonder, there is no possibility of rational discussion here.

 

Oh no! Another McLaren cop has just awakened!

Ferrari comes with CCB's and is basically the same MSRP cost. So, another fable destroyed. And, McLaren announced their price AFTER the 458 cost and specs were released. Of course they were going to price it cheaper. They are number 2.

Ok... here comes the obligatory "CCB's are not needed and too heavy" -- except that every time McLaren give out a press test car, it has the CCB option. Ooops. If it's not needed and not superior, why do they even offer it? Hmmmmmm.

No parts sharing with other manufacturers? Are you dreaming or on coke? They don't even build their own engines.

By the way, I noticed some nice McLaren sunglasses on their website you can buy... for $900. You should look pretty cool wearing them. And, I'm sure there's a picture of Paris Hilton buying her custom pink McLaren SLR in their headquarters. Maybe you can find it there when you visit.

Oh, I forgot. They don't like visitors.

 

Wow, working over time today.

Actually, feature for feature McLaren is more expensive (i know, i specced out both). CCB's are definitely useful on the track. The big difference is that they are much cheaper to replace. Running costs (especially when tracking) will be significantly lower.

They do not manufacture everything, but all the parts are bespoke: designed for them or by them. There is no sharing with other mfrs.

 

I'm so happy you agree with everything I said. We are making progress.

 

Produce the proof that the engines are not built in house please. First time I've heard of that. Now are you upset that the cars Ferrari delivers to actual customers do not perform as well as Ferrari claimed? Old man Enzo was a notorious cheat, so why wouldn't that legacy continue on in the company?

 

Ask Kyrs... he'll tell you.

http://www.ricardo.com/News--Media/Press-releases/News-releases1/2011/New-Ricardo-engine-assembly-facility-commences-pilot-production/

I thought "old man Enzo" died in the 80's. Are we still arguing about 1963? If so, I need another Red Bull.

 

I did not agree with you on sharing with other mfrs. There is none. The car is entirely bespoke.

 

But, they use outside suppliers to a much greater degree than Ferrari. That fancy CF tub was developed NOT at McLaren and not made at McLaren. The engine and turbos are NOT made at McLaren but by a subcontractor.

True?

So, what is more "pure"?

The answer: It makes NO difference which is my point. It's a moot argument on both sides.

 

http://www.insideline.com/mclaren/mp4-12c/mclaren-mp4-12c-supercar-breaks-cover.html

The above article (6 paragraphs down) states that the MP4-12C engine was developed by Cosworth and for F1 McLaren uses Mercedes-sourced engines.

 

Crap you beat me to it. How about some vodka to throw in that red bull? LOL

 

Just to clear on what the article says:


"The V8 is not derived from a Mercedes power plant. McLaren calls its M838T engine "unique for this car." It was reportedly developed by Cosworth, a company that is owned by piston-maker Mahle, which produces parts for Mercedes and is located close to Stuttgart."

Its not a MB derivative. But, it's not made by McLaren either. It's a purchased part built to their specs and standards, as is the gearbox (also Ricardo).

I'm sure its a world class engine. I'm not knocking the engine. I'm just trying to be clear on "who does what" when it comes to McLaren's propaganda police force.

BTW: Ricardo is a huge company in the auto business.