458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

That's actually wrong:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine

The engine was co-developed with Ricardo and is manufactured by Ricardo

 

It does not make any difference. However, the fact remains that all the parts in the car are specific to it. None of the parts are shared with any other manufacturer. It is entirely bespoke.
The tub was designed by McLaren and is made exclusively for it by Carbo-tech: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/04/mclaren-automotive-places-largest-ever-lightweight-carbon-monoco/

It does not really matter, though.

 

Good. We agree again. Still making progress!

 

Oh, so you do agree now that the car is bespoke and there is no sharing with other mfrs? Good, the more you know.

 

Yes. In fact, I said that all along. But the idea that McLaren makes more of it's parts than Ferrari is baloney. That was my point because that's what was raised.

I'm sure there's things that are not custom made on the Mac and simply purchased from suppliers. But, it's common to all cars. And, in fact, it's a good thing normally as it drives down costs and lets owners have less of a problem with parts supply in the future.

 

Interesting, either Edmunds or Wikipedia screwed something up then. Either way, it doesn't matter. Based on the article bdelp posted along with your Wikipedia addition I would say Edmunds is guilty.

 

I'm not sure what is worse: being associated as an MB deriviative or a 1998 Nissan race car.

In any event, the engine I'm sure is a marvel. The F40 was a turbo engine along with the 288 GTO and both are considered modern classics.

 

Just got home to find latest issue of EVO on the doorstep. Full test, 5 drivers, 5 days, 6 cars, 1000 miles and a track. (quite a mixture of cars)
MP4 12C
458 Italia
Merc SLS
911 Turbo S
Ford GT
Noble M600

To cut 35 page report to the final decision. Overall - Best car 458. Also scoring 5 out of 5 - SLS, GT, Noble, 4 out of 5 911 and MP4.

0-30 1st 911, 2nd MP4, 3rd 458
0-60 1st MP4, 2nd 911, 3rd 458
0-100 1st MP4, 2nd joint 911 and 458

Track Times - Now here is the shock!!! - Bedford Autodrome.
1st 458 - 1.19.3
2nd MP4 - 120.6

MP4 team then fitted corsa tyres - still second - 1.19.6

McLaren sent full complement of engineers for the track test - more than Ferrari did according to the article.

MP4 weight as tested with Carbon brakes (IRIS not functional) - 1433 kg
458 weight as tested - 1469kg

General comment, no tester chose MP4 as favourite, great to drive at 5/10th's with perfect ride and muted sound and also great at 10/10 th's, but most importantly not rewarding between these ranges where most of the time they will be driven. Brakes slated (carbon), seems similar to Merc SLR, all or nothing with no feel.

458 is faster on track!!!!!!!!!!

 

Come on now. You aren't being fair here.

That 36 Kg difference as tested between the 12c and the 458 is actually 36000 grams.

36000!!!!! Just imagine how much difference that is!

 

Oh no, krzys is going to have to cancel his order because the McLaren lap time is slower. Turns out it's the 458 that's a supercar and the McLaren is the toy. There's actually no way out of this, after all he's said he has no choice but to cancel his order.

 

Yah, we know how much importance it is to some that their car be "faster". To most of us though, it's not important what it does on a track. But, I'm just repeating myself.

Well, I suppose it would have been faster if Hamilton was driving!

Or maybe if they hadn't installed those "unnecessary" and heavy CCB's.

And we all know that Evo is just a mouth piece for Ferrari's "lies" about performance and specs.

But, there is a sunny side to this. It IS cheaper...

I can hear the blood vessels popping in someone's forehead as I write....

 

This is hilarious, Mclaren really cheated you, Kryz. How could they lie so blatantly and send teams to their tests? I really want to know what you're going to say about this, it must be pretty embarrassing after everything you've said!

 

Actually, If the lap times are consistently slower. I will cancel my order. The car is supposed to be on top of the performance league. One question about the lap-times, though is how Italia has improved 1 sec between tests. Since earlier on, it was at 20.3. Given the history of Ferrari supplying ringers for comparison tests, it is strange. This aside, the lap time of McLaren is slow. If AMS and CAR tests come out similar, I will cancel my order.

One more thing, the strong suspicion about Italia being a ringer can be confirmed by looking at Italia's weight of 1469 kg. No independent weighed cars (without Ferrari input) found anything close to that weight.

 

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Krzys:

You're a stand up guy and I hope you don't take any offense here to anything.

But, cut the cheatin' crap. It's below you.

 

How's it embarrassing? I consistently said all those thing subject to independent tests. You might like being cheated by Ferrari, but I don't. It does not matter if it is Ferrari or McLaren that does it. I am neither a ferrari or McLaren fan boy.

 

See, i don't trust neither McLaren nor Ferrari. The weight of 1469 kg has not ever been confirmed by anybody in an actual car. Hence my doubts.

 

Seriously, I don't feverishly look for excuses for my choices. If McLaren is not delivering the car they promised i will not buy it. Simple as that.

 

Own up man, your car is failing you. McLaren is doing the exact thing you were up in arms about Ferrari doing. It was cute but now it's getting ridiculous. You are now contradicting everything you have been saying for months.

 

Exactly what I've been saying for months. I'm glad we finally agree.

Just yelling "cheat" is unfair unless proven. And, all sides use ringers -- we all know it and so does the press (who go along with it).

 

IF McLaren is doing exactly the same thing as ferrari, then I will not buy it. Again, simple. I should own up to what?

 

Here's what I would do... seriously

CELEBRATE your purchase of the Mp4-12c. I'm sure it's a fantastic car. Forget the numbers game and just own and love the car for what it is.

No one is saying it's junk. It's bound to be an amazing machine. Who cares about the numbers -- even if the next 20 test shows the exact opposite?

That's what we've been saying all along. Numbers don't matter.

 

We discussed it to death, before, but no as testimony of two independent sources attests (Monkey and Chris whateverhisname from CAR), Ferrari is the master of cheating.

Nobody has seen an Italia with the weight of 1469 kg. Nobody who weighed a regular car, that is. This is very suspicious and given Ferrari history also very suggestive.

 

Looks like you will be cancelling that order

 

They don't matter to you, but they do to me. What's more, being honest about what you offer is an important part of a car experience to me. I really despise the dishonest culture of Ferrari, if McLaren is no different, i want no part of them, either.