458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

Well, then we will never agree on what makes a great car. And, you'll never be satisfied because there will always be something "faster".

I like the 12c. I don't like the way it looks but I do like what they are trying to do. If I could afford both a 12c and a 458, I would do it.

But, it wouldn't be because of the numbers on some track. It would be for my love of the automobile and the driving experience.

As to the "dishonestly part", if you had to use that as a yardstick as to what car you would own, you'd be driving a horse and buggy.

 

Whatever happened to buying a car because you wanted it and quite possibly couldn't live without it? Not because you need the fastest car on the block and be the kid with the shiniest coolest toy in the sandbox.

 

Sorry, but this is more complex than that. In terms of driving experience Italia is no paragon: the dull steering is really bothersome to me. I am willing to sacrifice some aspects, though, if the experience of speed is otherworldly. There is nothing better than throwing a mid-engine car into a turn at an insane speed. Porsche's cannot do it, front-engine cars cannot do it. Italia can do it but on the track the weight and the overall dullness of the experience comes out as many here can testify. I hoped McLaren will be different.

 

Too bad. I thought you really were excited to get one. I hope you get that excitement back.

I'm excited to get my 458. I wish everyone could have that feeling.

 

Just finished EVO myself. Scary thing for Mac lovers is that in three seperate tests usability/V's 458/v's old school supercars, it lost to another car and none of the EVO team would take it home instead of one of it's rivals.

 

I still think this is all BS. I would still buy the 458 if the tests and opinons were the exact opposite. Don't be surprised if in the next test, the Mac wins.

These guys are just like movie reviewers. They are not "reporters". They, and their editors, are there to sell magazines.

 

That EVO test is actually quite fishy. The 458 apparently beat track focused cars like the GT2 RS and the Gumpert Apollo, cars which have a much higher power-to-weight ratio and designed as hard core track cars. I know having a DCT shaves seconds off shift time, but the weight difference should make the Porsche and Gumpert come out on top.

Something's not right here...

 

Well, the Italia in the test is pretty clearly a ringer. The weight of 1469 kg is a dead giveaway. Still, the maclaren lap time is slower than the original Italia time and even worse, barely a sec faster than the scud and GT3 RS mk2. For the best handling car in the world, it's a pretty pathetic performance.

 

We don't know the conditions of the test, as well as if the MP4 used in the test was the lightest variant possible.

Honestly, I'm actually more confused by the disparity in reviews from February and March to now. A few months back, all automotive journalists regarded it as the automotive Second Coming, and noted writers like Steve Sutcliffe and Chris Harris praised it to no end (Sutcliffe even claimed it was better than the 458). Fast forward to now, and suddenly the MP4 isn't as good? Hell, it's actually slower?

Did McLaren offend the British press, somehow? I just don't understand this sudden change.

 

It's all answered in post 181.

 

It's clearly not the lightest version, but it should not matter. The change is striking, but remember at the time, these were preproduction cars. Hard to believe, things could get worse, but here we are. Let's see what the stig does at rockingham on Sunday in the CAR review.

 

It happens all the time. Look at the Evora - it could do no wrong and then nothing. They are in the business of selling magazines.

 

Exactly. There are more ringer reviewers as there are cheating car makers. It's why I stopped paying attention to them years ago.

I like top gear because they don't take things too seriously. Unfortunately, Ron Dennis is the most serious person on the planet and his cars reflect that.

 

Good point. It went from car of the year to nothing in the space of one year.

 

Krzys:

If you cancel your 12C order based on one test, you sir are hard core! But, I don't think you will.

My first sports car was an MGB --- acknowledged by everyone to be slow and over the hill along with painfully unreliable. I would see test and test of it vs other cars and it always came in last.

Did I care? No. It was fun to drive and I actually enjoyed working on it. I liked the way it looked too (hey, it was the 1970's!)

Eventually, I got tired of being beaten at a stop light by a VW bug and got myself an Alfa Spider --and I've been hooked on Italian machines ever since, even though the Alfa never won many tests either.

My point, I really don't care what others think of what I drive, including the press. I drive and own them because they please me, not them.

 

Looking at the lap time of Italia, Ferrari really went overboard with its cheating. .6 sec faster than RS2, a dedicated track toy with slicks, yet it Italia on street tires takes it easily. It even beats a race car ( gumpert). High comedy. If anybody had any doubts about Ferrari's integrity, this should dispel any doubts.

To Ferrari fanboys, the car that set those times is not available at your friendly Ferrari dealer, unfortunately.

 

How could it be you two or still going back and forth on this? I wish I had your free time!

 

I try to be nice and you through back the "cheating" card.

Why don't you call Evo personally and demand they inspect the car for cheating? After all, if it's that easy to spot a cheat just from the numbers, they should be just as smart as you in finding it.

Let's just get your story straight:

If the Ferrari wins, the Ferrari cheated.

If the Mac wins, the Ferrari cheated.


Ok, we got it. We can now ignore all of your posts on this subject.

 

I got a bit too excited, but i will wait for more tests. It's a bad start, though.

By the way, do you really think i care what others think.

 

Well, after that earlier discussion about how saving 2 grams of weight by not painting the McLaren's calipers put me to sleep, I downed 5 Red Bulls.

Red Bull gives you wiings you know. It's written on their winning F1 car but it's tough to see because it's going so fast.

 

if Ferrari beats dedicated race cars on slicks, then it's a good bet they cheated. Considering their history, it's a very good bet. Notice that it has nothing to do with mclaren. Mclaren clearly lost in the lap time test compared to other cars. its all about ferrari. My advice to Ferrari, try some subtlety next time. Dont be so blatant. I guess they went all out as they bought into the McLaren hype.

 

Ha! Yes! Otherwise you wouldn't argue with us so much! If you didn't care what we think, you'd have been on Mac Life all afternoon instead of with us.

 

It's a theory, but then that makes Evo complicit. Surely they can spot an underweight car if it's that obvious.

It didn't beat the Mac with slicks. It beat it with sticky Corsa's. Huge difference. The Mac was not using race rubber. The Mac only improved 1 sec with the Corsa tires. You aren't accusing Evo of sandbagging, are you?

 

Now that's a pleasant surprise (track results). I'm going to have to go get that issue. Thanks!

 

i was not talking about the macca, but about gumpert.

By the way, as Chris Harris explained lots of mags have been complicit for a while. Nothing new. Standard operating procedure.