458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

And that's why you're a stand up guy. I respect that. You've been entirely consistent all these months. I would like to think so have I.

I hope you buy it and give us your perspective. As I said before, when one comes to Las Vegas, I intend to drive it just to see for myself how great a car this is going to be.

 

Oh nice.
May be it's better have only 39 posts that full - fill up this thread with rubbish.
You can clearly read people's reaction to your post.
If you write that Ferrari is cheating, providing 'ringers' in car test comparison, you can bring into discussions proofs and facts.
As Mr Harris was not capable to do.
And instead you are talking about 'fuffa' (in italian means the absolute nothing of nothing)
And who's writing to you is someone that work in the field, in Italy and also for Ferrari.
I well know what a press car is, for every carmaker.

 

As Chris Harris explained, EVO and other mags are actively complicit in this practice. Again, the fact that Italia on "street" tires gets better lap times than Gumpert Apollo on slicks or RS2 on semi-slicks is a dead giveaway. As is the 1469 weight, which is roughly 120 kg lower than any independent test got. Remember, the difference between scud and regular 430 was just 100 kg. I know, Ferrari "magic".

 

I have to say that the idea that the touch sensors on the car door release is there to "save weight" is total and complete BS. You still need he latch, the motors, the wiring, and everything else to release the door and pop it open. This saves weight over a simple latch? Did their engineers graduate from Rube Goldberg School of Engineering in Oxford?

The same for the 6 inches of pipe to shorten the exhaust. Yah... don't bring on board a six pack of coke because you just wasted more weight than the savings in the exhaust!

Sometimes the "McLarenspeak" gets a bit tough to swallow. Their marketing guys need to tone it down a bit.

 

Well, I suggest that you keep up the good work and continue not contributing. Why mess with success?

 

so ... Ferrari cheats, and "EVO and other mags" are complicit.

PLEASE tell us why you put ANY belief in ANYTHING the press reports about the 458? You can't report one magazine's 458 weight, and use it to suggest that another magazine is lying ... if they all lie.

What reporting authorities do you respect, and why? And how do you know FOR SURE that these "authorities" are not spinning & lying, for profit?

Serious question. These press reports are, after all, deciding where YOU will spend your cash.

 

So, you know better than Evo, right? You can see this obvious descriptency... but they can't.

Yah... makes sense. After all, who spends more of their time looking and studying high performance autos all day?

You called a rat. Prove it. Call Evo on Monday and demand a retraction. If I were Ron Dennis, I'd be shouting "cheat" from the rafters now. They knew the results of this test months ago.

But what do I hear? SILENCE.

Here's the difference between Mac lovers and Ferrari lovers.

If Ferrari lost this test, we'd still buy it.

If Mac loses the test, Mac people turn up their noses or accuse Ferrari of cheating.

 

Ferrari lovers tend to suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

 

No, they just appreciate things that boring people can never understand.

Someone can look at a Picasso and see just a bunch of strange wavy lines and weird exaggerated faces.

Others can look at the same painting and see something of beauty, meaning, and soul.

We tend to be the latter.

 

Kidnappers=Ferrari?

Patti Hearst=Ferrari Lovers?

Is this right?

 

These are the proofs … very impressive.
A 458 euro spec with all carbon fibre options and with tank full filled is about 1540 Kg (see Italian - german - EVO magazine) means 1480 Kg with all liquid without fuel (1540 - 86*0,7)
I suppose last EVO is referring to curb weight without Fuel (as Mc laren MP4 -12 C weight 1433 Kg suggest) and so there are 21 Kilos missing that frankly could be a mix of production tolerance and weight balance error.
458 US spec are 50-60 kg heavier than 458 Euro version.
Supposing the 458 Italia was really 120 kg lighter, we can clearly see big improvement in acceleration data.
Evo did 0-60 mph in 3,2s and 0-100 mph in 6,8 mph
Come on let give us data of this new 1469 kg 'ringer’ …. I’m waiting for them.

 

No you are just producing justifications for being lied to. Yes Ferrari makes amazing products, so why don't they either sell the ringer cars to the public or post performance specs on actual customer cars. Customer cars are constantly dynoeing less, tracking slower, weighing in heavier then published specs. This can't be denied.

 

It would be impossible to prove whether or not they are cheating. None of us on this thread works for EVO and had close access to the conditions of the test or the specifications of the cars used.

The head-scratching part is that their results run completely counter to what had been previously established. In an older EVO test, the 458 got a very respectable 1:20.30. Ridiculously fast, but still a smidge slower than barely street-legal track cars like the Gumpert, Caterham, and the GT2 RS. That was perfectly understandable; after all, the 458 was definitely more comfortable and probably easier to drive than the cars aforementioned.

Now, the 458 is posting a time of 1:19:30 -- losing a second from the previous test. On a small track like Bedford, a second is a huge amount of time; with this new result, the 458 is only slower than the Caparo T1 and the Radical SR8LM!

 

I avoid to start to explain why comparing lap in different days and conditions is useless.
A Carrera GT lapped bedford in 1:23,3 s, any comment ?
I suggest also that the new K1 Michelin supersport tires are now replacing the old PS2 for the 458. This tires give a 0,6 sec advantage per lap in Fiorano in comparison to the old PS2 (source: 458 Team leader : P. Beneggi). The new 'ringer' had ' pilot supersport ...
Just to not talk only about 'fuffa' ...

 

Ummmm... how many times do we have to say this. We DON'T CARE. When I drive it on the street (like 99.99999999999999999% of the time Ferrari's are), they bring us JOY.

What they don't bring us are NUMBERS. If I wanted numbers, I'd buy some Nissan, stick on it all kinds of gear and get 1000 HP for about 1/4 the cost.

Here's whats important--

Numbers: Boring.

Driving: Fun

Get it?

And, I'm going to say it again. You call CHEAT --- PROVE IT. Show us your evidence that THIS test was cheated. EVIDENCE, not just your "opinion".

Ask yourself this... if this test was cheated, why isn't Ron Dennis complaining? You think he doesn't care that every Evo tester picked the Italia over his cars? You don't think he cares that the tests show his cars didn't go as fast?

What? It's some kind of "gentleman's agreement" between Ron and LDM not to bring up cheating in the press? Yah... I believe that one.

Until you have proof that Evo is knowingly cooking the books with Ferrari, I suggest you stick it.....

 

Very strong words and not a lot of fact, may I ask how many 458s you yourself have road tested on one day in the same conditions using recognized road test equipment?

 

+1 Must be magic.

 

+ 1

no magic at all.

What was the difference in humidity, air temp, track temp, track rubber, driver mood, etc? Can that possibly explain approx one percent difference?

 

Like I said, it's impossible. We can speculate until the cows come home whether it was a legitimate test, or if Evo was complicit in the whole affair. Ultimately, we can only depend on the tangible results which were published.

 

No, it just could be fact.

BTW: Are you still uncertain about that OJ trial? That blood evidence was tainted for sure! Dam prejudiced cops!

 

It's not "impossible" at all. Saying it is insulting to the guys at Evo.

And I would add one other thing... given that Harris "blow up" I would think Ferrari would be very sensitive to another obvious cheating accusation from them. If anything, they would do everything to make them believe it was up and up.

 

I'm fine with journos preferring the 458. Why not? It's a gorgeous car, great to drive, and very fast. I'm only bringing up the lap times issue because now it's beating cars with a much higher power-to-weight ratio that it hadn't beat before.