458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

No, it is. Remember, Ron has promised "the best handling car in the world". Given that McLAren knows a thing or two about handling, being within one sec of GT3 RS, a car they have 150 hps on, is a failure.

 

guys, we all know this is a HUGE waste of time.

Every magazine in existence could declare the 458 to be the more desirable, more satisfying, and even (at least, on occasion) the faster on-track, car ... and it simply won't sway those with a HUGE predisposition in favor of the McLaren

Any scrap of evidence ... including journalistic rants and conspiracy theories (supported by the unassailable, iron-clad evidence of an internet message post) ... will be clung-to, as the "best evidence" that the McLaren is still the better, more desirable, high-performance machine.

This is internet racing at its finest

 

Oh dear, Chilton's and Harris' testimony is not sufficient? You are gonna believe whatever Ferrari does unless convicted in Supreme Court? This is just not serious. You guys are actively looking away from what's in front of you.

 

Yes lying is wrong, just as we have seen with McLaren and their weights etc. Lying in that if manufacturers provide ringers to magazines they still publish the info. You say that the Ferrari crowd are simple and like to be lied to yet you said just a day ago that you would cancel your order for your McLaren because of what you read in a magazine. The same magazines that you claim are "complicit" meaning they are lying to you blatantly. You are actively looking away from this

 

Do you really have problems with reading comprehension? Did you notice that we are not comparing Ferrari and Mclaren here at all?

 

Interesting perspective. I wouldn't have looked at it that way but I can see your point if you just look at this one issue.

The GT3 is a great car and a great value for money too.

 

I would cancel my order if the promised performance on race track is not there in independent tests. Yes, definitely.

 

i'm sorry, one of us must be in the wrong thread let me check the thread title ...

or ... are we now attempting a slight-of-hand distraction, in a childish attempt to steer the argument away from displeasing results?

 

But those magazines are liars... All of them as you have stated. Why would you now trust liars? Is it okay for the magazines to lie? I thought you just said lying is wrong for everybody

 

Have you looked at the Gumpert or Apollo or other track burners or is it just the Mac that excites you?


Ohhhh man! If the guys on Mac life heard you say this!

 

Are you saying that this test conducted by EVO lack credibility.....even after the facts quoted from the article?

 

Oh man, nice try. I trust the stated times, another issue is if i can buy the car in question or not. Chilton and Harris tell me that I can buy the same Porsche or Lambo they test. Unfortunately I cannot buy the ferrari in question.

 

and once again, for the THIRD time, i ask :

WHAT INDEPENDENT TEST WILL YOU ACCEPT? What unbiased "authority" will you accept as a valid comparison?

We know EVO is out, because they are clearly still buying into the Ferrari propaganda/blackmail machine ... even after the unassailable Chris Harris rant, which was subsequently supported by the iron-clad proof of an internet message board post.

So what independent authority will you accept? And WHY will you accept it, without any question of its integrity?

 

I cant understand that either, when Ferrari wins the magazines are liars wen McLaren wins, all is well in paradise....

 

I already said the same thing as here. No, I don't want a track toy. I turned my scud into one, but it does not work for me. I want a car that can be driven in comfort to the race-track and then driven there hard without the weight eating brakes and tires every other day. I had high hopes for the mac, but it seems a car like that does not exist.

 

Look at the post above. #312

 

So why would Harris take part in the test if the 458 wasn't real? Is he now okay with lying? Maybe it is that the 458 really is that fast... What about the McLaren being way overweight? I still don't understand how you are justifying trusting the very magazines you personally said lie to sell copies...

 

It is an interesting point.

If you believe magazines are all crooks and liars, why would you cancel your order based on their tests?

Isn't that just making their crime win?

I guess I can't simply understand why this doesn't work----


The test was legit and the Ferrari -- on this day and on this track-- won.

Tomorrow, the Mac may win.

These are all great super cars and anyone would be happy to own any of them. What you choose is a matter of personal taste, not numbers on a board.

 

WHAT INDEPENDENT TEST WILL YOU ACCEPT?

What "unbiased authority" will you "trust", since all these tests ... including EVO ... are clearly bought/leveraged/blackmailed?

And WHY will you accept your chosen, unbiased authority?

PLEASE repeat the answer for me, my old eyes must have missed it

 

This entire argument is like using a pair of calipers to compare the noses of two supermodels to decide which is hotter.

 

Actually, that's exactly what most of us have been saying all along.

It's the Mac people who cannot accept the fact that their car lost ONE test that's driving all this.

Most of us just like the cars. For some, they need "proof".

 

I do perhaps feel a little sorry for our number one McLaren fan after 60 or was it 80 pages of telling us how everyone is going to love this car....it just hasnt happened, well not with these 3 magazines anyway!

 

Oh yeah I know...but I didnt want to point fingers at anyone in particular so just made a general statement.

Continuing with the supermodel analogy. If you have two supermodels standing in front of you you arent going to focus on any one particular trait. You are going to choose the overall package since they are both already close to perfect.

It sounds to me that thus far the 458 is the preferred package regardless of if it doesnt have the most perfect 'nose'

 

I'll say this for the one millionth time: I don't hate the Mac. I like the Mac. I don't like it as much as the 458 for reasons only I can understand. I like Vanilla Ice Cream more than I like chocolate.

Is that a crime?

No. And it's not a crime for someone to think the other way.

But what IS a crime is to accuse those who like the 458 over the 12C to be liars or cheats without evidence and just "their beliefs" or even past events.

That's just going too far.

 

Differences in tire technology alone from 2004 to now can account for the time. See George330's posts comparing the Enzo to the 599 GTO in the Enzo section of the forum -- he says the Enzo is faster, but differences in tire technology as well as transmission upgrades make the 599 GTO faster around a track. I would venture it's a similar case for the Carrera Gt.

Instead of making pathetic ad hominem attacks, try to think before you actually post.