458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

Let me quote myself:

"...I trust the stated times, another issue is if i can buy the car in question or not. Chilton and Harris tell me that I can buy the same Porsche or Lambo they test. Unfortunately I cannot buy the ferrari in question..."

 

Who accused those who like 458 to be liars or cheats? We accuse Ferrari of providing highly modified ringers, as it's been their well established practice in the past.

 

Whilst we are on about tyres, the Gumpert never lapped the Evo track on slicks, the time listed was performed after 4 laps of the circuit on road tyres, with no 'support team' I think you have mentioned at least 3 times as evidence against the 458

 

I never said everybody's gonna love the car. Where? when? please, show any posts to that effect.

 

Uhh, yes, technically speaking, Gumpert had "street" tires in the sense that they were legal on the street. Also, technically speaking Gumpert is a "street" car, since you can legally drive it on the street. However, it is as much a street car as the one FXX in germany they made street legal, or the new street-legal Radical.

 

How do you know "Chilton and Harris" are not being bought by Porsche ?? What magazine do they work for, and do you trust the magazine publisher, and editor ... or just them?

Why do you choose to believe select journalists, and not others, to dictate your buying decision ??

 

I'm sorry but you did. You are the one that brought up this "Ferrari cheats" thing in this thread as a reason for why the 12c lost.

You are the one who says all magazines go along with it.

You are the one who acknowledged that Harris (one of the reviewers in this particular test) has been a hero for being a "whistleblower" for Ferrari's "cheating".

If Harris knows Ferrari is cheating and says nothing AFTER he has made these claims, you are saying he's part of the cover up (aka: liar and cheat). The 4 testers at Evo liked the 458 better... yet that's not good enough for you. They must be lying.

 

Exactly, that's perfectly fine if you do, however, that doesn't mean that you can claim they are superior morally because you like them or you agree with their statements. The fact is you have two people against EVERYONE else. Claiming that EVERYONE is in collusion with lying for a manufacturer seems silly when you actually consider what you are saying... Especially when the one who made all the claims continues to be a part of what he was so "upset" about.

 

Let's be clear, for anyone who hasn't read the EVO article (that would include me). Please indulge me ...

Is Chris Harris still with EVO?

Has Chris Harris compared the two cars (in the title of this thread)?

Which one does he prefer?

Has he called "shenanigans" on the track test where the 458 beat the 12C? Surely, he of all people would be screaming from the mountaintops if the test were "suspicious".

 

It's hilarious reading some of the posts on mclarenlife. Ron Dennis can console himself with the thought that although his car may have lost 4 UK magazine tests he can now recruit a whole raft of top flight drivers from that forum to replace Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton as most ofthe posters there seem to think they are driving gods for whom a hundreth of a second is noticeable

 

Ron Dennis reads page 50 of Evo magazine -- shows EMOTION! In a side note, hell is reportedly frozen over and pigs have been seen flying.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Stupidest posts on Maclife:

It CAN'T be the Mac... it has to be Ferrari cheating. We all "know" they do.

And, all the reviewers are lying that they chose the Italia over the Mac to be in Ferrari's "good graces". It's payback for the Harris outburst.


Ok... so what about the Porsche????????

I suppose Porsche is also cheating and Evo is letting it pass to?

What stupid arguments. Why not just accept the fact that the car isn't as fast as you thought -- at least in this case.

No, it HAS to be something else. It just CAN'T BE TRUE! How is it POSSIBLE that the Ferrari could beat the Mac?

I swear those Maclife guys must think aliens are running Area 51.

I'll say it again:

If the Ferrari wins, we say "Ok, fine". No big celebrations. No big woop.

If the Ferrari lost, we'd all say "meh, what did you expect? No biggie."

If the Mac wins, the Mac people go "Nah, nah!!! You idiot posers still like your Fiats".

If the Mac loses, the Ferrari cheated!!!!!


LOL!!!! Do you guys hear yourselves??? Was there a sale on tin hats on Amazon?

 

Go to sleep, you are tired.
The Carrera GT tested in 2008 new Bedford configuration was from Evo tester Paul Bailey and fitted Michelin PS2 with Porsche specification (N0), so your remark is not accepted.
More the Porsche 911 Turbo S had the worst and oldest tire of the market (Bridgestone RE050A, older than PS2) and still matched the Carrera GT lap time and faster than a 997 GT2 with pilot cup tires.
Any other comment ? If you want we can discuss all the night about Tires process fabrication so I can better understand your technical competence about the subject.
Nice to read about the word ‘pathetic’ from your side when I have to read about any kind of excuses about Ferrari cheat explaining new Bedford lap improvement.
I will try to be kind suggesting to you to start exactly from what you wrote about tires technology.
From a PS2 to a Pilot Super sport there is a huge difference.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-report/review-michelin-pilot-super-sport-tires
But I did not read anything about 'different tire technology' in your previous posts.
You start to think before posting, really
Cheers

 

+1
And it's almost impossible discuss with them.
I liked the McLaren attitude approuch (I have contacts for P12 projects DV phase) but
I can not stand the arrogance of most of fan or potential customer that they have to drive the fastest-one if not it's a failure.

 

Oh, man. Reading comprehension is really a lost art here. I did not talk about McLaren losing b/c of Ferrari cheating. McLaren clearly lost sinc it cannot convincingly beat much less accomplished cars on track. Italia issue is totally separate. Harris participated before, so nothing new here. It is simply being actively blind not to see a problem with the relative performance of Italia against track specials such as gumpert or rs2.

 

Maybe, they were, who knows? However, there is no reason to think they were and there is every reason to think they were honest since coming out with those things went against their interests. You have hard time understanding that I am not a fanboy of any make. Given all the available evidence, it is pretty likely that Ferrari cheated. Again. Your constant desire to wish away available evidence is just sad. Do you really like being lied to? Do you need it to feel better about your cars? What's the point?

 

Mclaren has lied to you, how is that any different? It has obviously not made any difference to Chris. The 458 was a second faster after fitting stickier tires and a different driver, that really isn't too hard to comprehend. We have already had someone IN THE INDUSTRY tell us that the tires alone could make up for a .6 sec difference. Have you ever considered that the Gumpert or GT2RS has too much power to fully put down on such a track? It's a short circuit, that could easily explain the difference, if it were a longer circuit with more straights the result would probably be different

 

Why are you so bent up about the Carrera GT lap time? I would mention that the Turbo S has AWD, PDK dual clutch transmission, and acceleration times short of only the Veyron, and on a relatively small track like Bedford, it's not very hard for it to match the times of the manual transmission and naturally aspirated CGT.

And if you can bring any relevance as to how this relates to the 458 or the MP4, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'll take my comprehension over your selective memory!!

 

Yes race cars are mainly designed to go fast in straight-line. At Hockenheim, RS2 takes Italia by over 2 seconds (which is even shorter), and here italia returns the favor by taking it by .6 sec. No, that's just not very likely. Not impossible, just not very likely.

 

Gear changes are going to mean a lot on a short track, not to mention the RS2 has turbo lag.

 

Come on, man. this is just piling on unlikely events. Gumpert, rs2, harris, chilton,... All the stuff you quote in isolation is not impossible, but taken together it just does not compute.

 

What are you talking about? How is having a dual clutch and lack of turbo lag impossible? How is setting a quick time with one driver on hard tires and then an even quicker time with softer tires and a completely different driver impossible? Is the 458 not real now? Is that McLaren's new argument?

You still haven't addressed the fact that McLaren has lied about the weight of it's car (missing the mark by 100kg).

You also haven't addressed Jeff's questions either

 

Piling on unlikely events. Hmmmm. You mean like Ferrari put in a ringer, no one at Evo notices or cares or is afraid to say anything or is corrupt, and the Ferrari loses the drag race yet wins the course race?

That kind of piling on unreasonable events???

 

The Mac excuse team:

The Ferrari cheated.

The Ferrari cheated.

The Ferrari cheated.

Repeat and rinse.