458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

Come on, I don't know Harris personally. I know nothing about his integrity as a person. His accusations had greater weight since they did go against his interests. On top of that his accusation were confirmed (not very loudly, mind you), by Chris Chilton from CAR.

 

Two things. Do you understand my point about weight now? Do you see the 172 lbs (minimum) discrepancy now? Doesn't it bother you? Doesn't a pretty much identical discrepancy in R&T (another independent source) bother you either? You are way too trusting.

As I explained by now a couple hundreds times. I believe McLaren failed and it has nothing to do with Italia's times.

 

As I said before Harris saw no adverse effects from his rant, that could very well be a reason why he has confirmed the reality of what was seen at this latest test.

So essentially everything that you have tried to use as an argument is false? Remember you based everything of what you were saying from Harris and his statements.

 

Here's the END of this.

They all picked the 458 best after EVERTHING. Like.... everything.

That's all you need to know. That fact is UNSHAKABLE, unless you think the editors are corrupt.

Oh, and I say again.. read post 450.

 

What are you talking about? I based my suspicions on three issues:
the consistent weight discrepancies
the massive track performance improvements
accusations by Harris and Chilton

As i said Harris' new statement helps Ferrari, but it does not remove the issue. You are saying that the reason he confirmed the test was b/c he saw no consequences from his previous actions? How's that supposed to make sense? Much more likely explanation would be that he got with the program since Ferrari pulled strings at EVO. But I am not making this accusation since I have no idea. Considering the context (and independent confirmation from Chilton), his previous accusations have greater weight than his current absolution, but they still help. I will give Ferrari more of a benefit of the doubt.

 

Read post four fifty. It's all explained there.

You're done.

 

Look on the bright side, at least you now know that mags publish curb weights. Plus, you also learned the definition of curb weight. You profited massively here.

 

If I learned anything it's that some people can't just accept facts and will trash anyone to get their way.

Thank you for that. I forgot it after the OJ trial but I got it back this weekend.

[Whisper] "four fifty"

 

You were hell bent on trusting Harris a mere 24 hours ago, you held him in the highest regards but now you brush him off like it was nothing. The reason we are still here posting about the same issue is because you perpetuated the Harris argument that Ferrari are liars and cheaters. Now that argument is out, proven by your man, but you are unwilling to accept it, again from the very mouth of your man.

 

I am sorry, he did not deny that Ferrari are cheaters, he just said that EVO does not let Ferrari get away with cheating. He actually CONFIRMED that Ferrari are cheaters. Read the quote.

Again, as in any court proceedings (even civil), testimony that goes against somebody's interests has more value than the other way round. Especially, if it has independent confirmation.

Still, I will say it. Harris's comment help Ferrari's case here.

 

subtle hint
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Accept facts? Coming from you? That's too rich. How's your remedial arithmetic coming along? See the difference between 172 and 50 yet? Nah, I will give a couple more weeks.

 

Repeat after me:
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No, no, no. Your number is 122.

 

McLaren's latest study on how to make the 12c beat the Italia:

4-------5-------zero!
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So now you're saying that the supposed "ringers" that Ferrari provided were slower than the actual model they sell. What are they going for humble points? That argument holds no water.

Look at it this way, you are saying Harris went against Ferrari and it wasn't in his best interest (despite the publicity) but comes back months later to say that the model he just tested (the non-ringer that is faster than the supposedly lightened and hotted up cars) is in fact legit.

How do you explain the "ringers" being slower than the actual car when they have a huge power and weight advantage...

 

Given that he said before that Ferrari provided ringers for tests, and now he confirms it with the caveat that EVO does not let Ferrari push them, it's clear that in other tests (other mags, that is) Ferrari times were not legitimate. Correct? that's what he essentially is saying here. Now, if Bedford times are even bigger outliers than the other magazine tests, the conclusion writes itself.

Again, notice that he still calls Ferrari cheaters, nothing changed in this respect.

 

Remember how you were claiming that the Bedford time was "impossible." As in an absolute, it could not happen in this physical universe. You said there was absolutely no way that the 458 could set a time faster than RS2 and the Gumpert around Bedford when the times around Hockenheim (your supposed "ringer") were something like up to 2.7 seconds slower. Again, you claimed that it was impossible, it COULD NOT happen. Now you are saying that the legitimate car is just that, 2.7 seconds faster than a "ringer" (a car that is supposed to have gobs more power and 100s of kilos removed). The conclusion writes itself, is that what you are honestly implying?

 

Sorry, what I meant is that the conclusion is that the EVO car is still a ringer. No, the Bedford times still look out of whack. As do weights.

 

No, that is not what you said. See your quote

 

WOW!!! this thread has really gone to ****. can mods close it if can't get back on track? i'll start. so far, most big time rags (UK especially) are showing: McLaren relied heavily on the 'leak method' of marketing (ie, providing bits and pieces, promises, long before anyone had the opportunity to drive a full production car vs instruments and rivals) claiming the car is xzy super duper puper fast, lightweight, can provide a magical combo of performance and comfort)...but the folks bit off more than it could chew...promised on what it could not 1000% give (yes, 1000, it needed to deliver WAAAAAY above and beyond anything else). and thus the uproar...well, at least a mini uproar on F-chat. so, the problem is that, at least for EVO at Bedford, the MP did not destroy the 458 as promised. it was never expected to 'out excite' the prancing horse, but since the 'numbers game' has not turned out in MASSIVE favor of the MP, excuses are being dug up left and right? errrr ok. Ferrari needs to bring out the 'Scud' version of the 458 right NOW to complicate matters further

 

Sure, that's what I said. I am saying is that if Ferrari cheats with other magazines, but Bedford lap times are even more out of whack than the other mag times, then Harris must be lying or unaware of what's going on, since precisely it is impossible for a regular car to go faster than ringers.