458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

I have finally watched the video and read the article from Axis oversteer....

Pretty interesting I have to say and very surprising!

I always thought the McLaren was going to be much faster but this is really amazing!

The best part is that even with these "reports" someone hasn't still accepted that McLaren isn't such a superior machine and that the 458 is a pretty, good sounding but slow and fat machine ;-)

 

How about another possible sticky-wicket?
Just a thought. Isn't it interesting how the price points came in so similar for both cars? If this really is the not-so-earth-shattering performance from the final production cars and they artificially set the price-point to compete with 458 also, this could spell doom for McLaren road car division. Someone explain how they could start a huge high-tech manufacturing facility from scratch and be profitable enough to make the same price points as established Ferrari who can also spread cost over multiple items.
Maybe someone with a math-business background could look at investment needed as opposed to realized sales.

I only say this by looking at the huge investment troubles Fisker is going through trying to start up but delivering many more vehicles.

Just a thought.


\Bob

 

They really are having a tough time accepting it over there on mclarenlife....

 

+1
Turbo and suspension problems on the MP4 during the track they are now saying! Can't believe no-one spotted the rocket strapped to the 458.

 

Yep, NASA surplus from de-fleeted space shuttles I hear

I love how they don't seem to think it odd that for probably one of the most influential tests Mclaren were likely to face for their new car that they wouldn't have checked it over and over for faults/issues before handing it over to CAR to test. I mean it's not as if Ron Dennis has a reputation for OCD is it. Or could it be that their "slight adjustments" of their car to improve cornering performance didn't quite work out and over pressurised the suspension or that they over tweaked the boost on the turbo and it didn't like sustained hot laps? I mean that would be ridiculous to suggest right??

Impressive car though if failing suspension and a faulty turbo only cost them 2 seconds on the track. You won't need roadside assistance with one of these babies as they'll go into limp home mode and be limited to 190 mph

 

There is one remote possibility. Ben Collins might have been driving the McLaren wrong. Apparently, with the brake steer thing you have to drive counter intuitively and give it more welly when the understeer starts to bite. Unlikely that Collins wouldn't know this, but who knows. After all, this is not the result we expected, even the Ferrari faithful.

 

That is pretty remote I'd suggest as I'm sure Mclaren's chief test driver Chris Goodwin would have given the Stig maximum instruction on how to obtain the best from the car. Matt Prior from Autocar writes that he certainly was.

 

EVO test as well!

 

Yeah, I know, I'm trying to give the McFans a straw to clutch. Lol!

 

Hold on in a few minutes Krzysztof will wake up and explain all this to us...

It is obvious that Ferrari rigged the McLaren so that it would win ;-)

 

In an earlier posting I said laptimes and numbers MOSTLY do not matter to the typical supercar buyer and I still stand by that. However, I must say I am quite surprised by the Car magazine laptimes putting the Ferrari SUBSTANTIALLY ahead of the McLaren.
I do not think you could ever fully disable the Mac's electronics since the suspension system is so reliant on it without a mechanically sprung setup as a base. I am sure the McLaren GT3 racecar must use a conventional spring/shock setup no?

 

458 was only 1.6 faster than Gallardo spider in the test.

Are the surprising times not the GT2 and MP4 (both slower than expected) - the other 3 look to be as expected when compared to each other?

 

Indeed I am suprised the track biased Porsche and the MP4 are not much quicker. I suppose when Ferrari unleashes the track biased version of the 458 that it should be much quicker

 

Relability problems on a highly prepped test car. Doesn't say much for customer cars. Oh but deliveries are only delayed while they're re-speccing the stereo

Dull, slow AND unreliable...

Oh dear!

Jonathan

 

Very disappointing results from the McLaren. Talk about a total failure in expectations.

 

I havent seen the video but isnt the 458 the two tone fuoco car being used the FNE car (458 FNE) that every single journalist lays their hands on?

 

Yes you are right....gorgeous colour!

 

Yes, as you would expect, most (not all but including Car and, I think, Evo) of the UK tests have used the UK press car. Top Gear magazine had a yellow 458 and a white Mclaren (that was the same Mclaren Autocar tested and different to the one Car had). I think it was Auto Express that had an Italian-registered 458. So at least 3 different 458s and at least 2 (probably 3?) different Mclarens in the four tests. Always the same verdict though.

Jonathan

 

Yes McLaren GT3 racecar uses racing shock + F/R sway bars.
Mc Laren said because FIA rules do not allow roll control by hydraulic system.
That's not true, just marketing to defend its technical choice.
Patents about damping roll control system are available from 90' (the first are from Yamaha and Alfa Romeo) and have been tested by almost every car makers.
(Also by the Fix It Again Tony boys)
Cost, complexity and reliability reported to mild car dynamic improvements (almost comfort in certain situation) and weight gain are factors that prevented this system to be employed on a large scale.
Mc Laren system is supplied by Tenneco.
A more interesing solution is to always keep sway bars but use hydraulic actuator on the link connection to wheel assembly.
Cheers

 

Oh dear. Again not paying attention to what I wrote. I don't trust any mfr times. I don't want to be lied to by neither ferrari nor mclaren. The statement at the end of the video is pure BS.

 

Yep.

 

It's worth looking at CAR's online blog to read the comment from their Editor Phil McNamara. It seems it was Mclaren who switched cars for the track test section and NOT Ferrari. Interesting about the comment he makes on the car Mclaren supplied for the "road test" having taughter suspension. Did Mclaren bring a second car with a different setting for it's suspension to improve it's track performance and it didn't quite work out?? Why switch the car otherwise for the track test section when the other manufacturers did not?? Draw your own conclusions from McNamara's clever choice of words in his last sentence.

It seems very strange that CAR were satisfied enough to use the data they gathered on the test day and put it into print and film and did not wait and carry out their own controlled re-run of the 12C if they believed it had a fault the day they tested it. This test would have been concluded a few weeks ago after all and Mclaren must have had the opportunity to try and convince them to re-run their "repaired" car before going to print. That evidently fell on deaf ears and the best they obtained was the silent still at the end of the video test explaining that they retested themselves and achieved 1:28.
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Is it a wrong track set up or is it a suspension failure/malfunction?

 

This is Mclaren's response to their poor lap time at Rockingham as posted over on mclarenlife -

I'm not convinced by that explanation just as I'm sure few people on mclarenlife would be if Ferrari had tried the same thing had they been off the pace. At best it shows sloppy work (highly unlikely I'd venture) by a team of people who are reknowned for excellent levels of prep in F1 and whose attention to detail and QC control is probably unrivalled. I'm guessing CAR didn't feel comfortable with it either or they'd have changed their figures knowing how important the test results potentially can be both to their own reputation and that of Mclaren.

Draw your own conclusions

 

wow.

"suspension failure", "premature ABS intervention", "excessive roll" in braking & turning, etc.

and all this went UN-NOTICED by Ben Collins (aka The Stig) while he was driving? Sure. Why not.

As for the "follow-up" test ... different driver, different day hardly makes for a "controlled comparison"

yeah, i'm convinced that customers can really buy the ringer that McLaren brought to the track after things went bad for them ...