458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

I find it hard to believe that the 458 could be that much faster than a GT2RS. The Mclaren is a total unknown so who knows, but the GT2 RS is a monster.

 

Well, if Ferrari can lower the weight of their test car by 76 kg with "carbon" options, anything is possible. I am confused why you are confused.

 

fine .. take the 458 out of the test altogether.

Now how does the McLaren look, compared to the other cars in the test?

 

Wow, this lap time thing really is a matter of life and death for the McFans. Relax guys, it doesn't matter.

 

A) I've already showed you mathematically that they didn't need to cheat on weight (and you have not shown anything that they have aside from your "opinion").

B) Chris Harris -- the guy who brought this entire issue up -- has said the cars weren't cheating.

C) McNamara says that this was the same Ferrari UK tester car that had been around months. If it was a ringer just for this test, someone in Maranello is Nostradamaus.

D) Even if Ferrari was not even in this test, the results against the other cars is just DIRT POOR for something that is supposed to blow everyone away with their mighty McLaren-ness.


It's tail between the legs time for the men at Woking. Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini are sending over a several gourmet dinners of CROW for them to eat. This was a serious beat down. If it was the opposite, you guys at Mac Life would be popping the champagne corks and shouting "na,na,na" at the pretty boy posers who buy Ferrari's-- and you know it.

 

I've said it before:

If the Ferrari won, we'd be happy but it wouldn't matter in our decision making.

If the Mac won, we'd say "good for them" but I will still buy an Italia


Now, the flip side:


If the Ferrari won, it has to be cheating. The Mac CAN'T lose. It's impossible. There must be a reason out of their control. If it IS true, I want my deposit back.

If the Mac won, the 458 is a POS and all Ferrari owners are idiots and delusional.


Please tell me which group are the true auto enthusiasts?????

 

Here's the part that sticks in the throats of the guys who continue this ridiculous "Ferrari cheats" bit.

The Mac WON all the acceleration tests. Obviously, it accelerates better than any of the other cars out there. So, if there's a "ringer", you would think that ringer would have WON this drag racing challenge.

But, when the SAME Italia is on the road course, it WINS. And, wins by quite a bit.

The Mac had the best top speed times and the best acceleration times of any of the cars tested. It was lighter and had more HP. It had Corsa tires.

So, how can a RINGER in the road course LOSE in the acceleration tests?


The only logical answer is --- there is no ringer. The Mac just isn't the "best handling car in the world". In fact, it isn't better handling than the Lambo spider.

For a car of it's background, hype, and pedigree, this has to be a very sobering minute. The Italians and the Germans have shown them it isn't so easy.

 

to all future 12C owners :

"Your car may have a suspension failure, causing excessive body roll in braking & turning, and ultimately leading to premature ABS intervention. However, all these symptoms will go unnoticed by you, and your closest McLaren mechanic (making it quite difficult to diagnose) ... since they went unnoticed by an expert driver on a closed track. The only thing you might notice, is that your car is slower than a Lambo convertible. Have a nice day."

 

Priceless!!

 

Best quote ever!

Let's say something anyway. For a car that was supposed to BLOW the competition away they supposedly managed to go 3 tenths faster than the 458....on sticky tyres! WOW that is really very fast.
It must be surely because of the carbon tub, the lower weight, the higher power, the air brake, the brake steer and ALL those lovely things!

;-)

 

you know, it's easy and entertaining to poke fun

But as bdelp has REPEATEDLY said, by any measure, the McLaren is undoubtedly a fantastic machine ... a engineering marvel that ANYONE would be proud to own! But they really have none to blame, other than their very own pre-production marketing strategy & PR department, for all the fuss, now that the test reports are flowing

 

Exactly. Some people have been taking this way too seriously. If we can't have a little fun talking about our toys, we might as well all be zombies driving Prius'.

 

OMG .. I almost died laughing ...

 

The GT2RS is a monster...in a straight line but very hard to control under severe trail braking or hard acceleration out of a corner.

 

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLMAO

 

Like crap. They totally failed.

 

Well there goes one sale of the MP4xyz123

 

krzys, i know you're searching for a high-performance machine, from a manufacturer that doesn't lie ... or "stretch the truth". Honestly ... the problem, as i see it, is that i don't see "the path" to that answer. It's a praise-worthy goal, but how do you get there? Each potential buyer can't necessarily "test & measure" the potential candidates themselves So you either have to : trust someone else (one reporter, or a group of reporters), OR ... buy the vehicle for reasons other than small differences in performance, the limits of which none of us will ever explore.

Know what i mean? I'm really trying to be helpful, now, after all the other crap i've written. For a moment, pretend there are no journalists or magazines or tests. What car moves you? What car is best-positioned to give you the highest degree of long-term satisfaction and pleasure ... just for you, not anybody else?

 

Mr. bdelp,

Now that is a very good thread, hats off to you.

This is a good post as well. Realization is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRsF8utqXCo&feature=relmfu[/ame]


IMHO, Collins has a lot of difficulty to manage torque exiting from corners. Two big oversteering, last one in last corner before main straight (loosing time)
Definitevely NOT a perfect lap, could be faster.

What you do you think about this GT2 RS lap ?

 

Ok, it's fine, but let me again explain my motivation. I love my scud, but it is too harsh for a DD. I kept it at the track as a track toy, but it does not work for me. So, I want a car with the feel and top performance of the scud and daily usability. I am not afraid to use my car, even though it costs a lot in depreciation. The problem with Italia is that it is too heavy. It shows up on the track in the dull on the limit feeling (as reported by many here), plus it will eat tires and brakes. I know a thing or two about that since I had to replace my front CCB rotors. No fun.

So, where do the lap times come in here? Well, i want the top performance, no doubt, but I want the mfr to be straight with me, too. It's not a deciding factor, but spending (admittedly, enjoyable) hours to find out what the car in question weighs is just ridiculous. I know all mfrs fib and play with stuff, but to me Ferrari takes it too far. It takes it away from the enjoyment of the car if I have to constantly wonder what is not exactly working as advertised. I can show you my exchanges with Ferrari after my CCB's failed for examples of, how should I put it, less than forthcoming attitude.

 

Come on,

A) you showed that by taking out fuel, which you cannot do. If this is not enough, we can always look at R&T numbers for conclusive proof that Italia's dry weight is not 3042 lbs as advertised by Ferrari
B) Harris said Ferrari was cheating, just EVO was not participating. They don't know however what's in the car they got. Which by the way neatly explains why Italia does so well on track and not in straight line. Harris claimed before that they would supply two different cars optimized separately. They could not do it here.
C) McNamara is saying that this is the NEW UK tester that will stay in the UK for some months going forward.

D) No doubt

 

Honestly, let's entertain a train of thought with no attention paid to journalists or "performance data" ... let's assume that most of the cars you're looking at are "close enough" in performance, that other factors become significant. You're looking for daily usability, and hopefully low depreciation, low(er) maintenance cost and low(er) depreciation.

What do we know about maintenance costs of the McLaren? I know it's all projected at this point, but what's been said? I honestly have no idea

We might look at depreciation of the 458 in comparison to the 360 & 430, which have been pretty steep as far as i can tell.

These issues are worth discussing! I would suggest just call the performance equal, for a moment, for all intents and purposes ... in what direction do these other factors point, for you?

 

Actually, the Mac has (apart from theoretical at this point advantage of weight),a huge advantage in consumables: pads for CCB: 170 quid per axle! One CCb rotor: 1,700 quid. That's very cheap. I can give you the exact break-down for Ferrari if you want, since i know them only too well.

 

dude this is significant stuff Again, might I humbly suggest that THESE issues, more than pretty small performance differences (one way, or other), should be guiding your decisions? None of us will ever experience the full potential of these cars on a track ... but we sure WILL experience maintenance costs in a daily driver!

Nobody knows about depreciation of the MP4, but could it really be worse than a 360 or 430 (trying to extrapolate to the 458)?

On the other hand, the doors on the McLaren might prove difficult on a daily driver

Howabout insurance costs? Similar?

Proximity to a Ferrari dealer/mechanic ... versus proximity to a McLaren dealer/mechanic?