458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

I think that's what gives the 458 some of it's personality as well. Of course it's been tuned so that it provides you monumental traction out of turns (even if you have a bit of opposite lock on) and allows you to cut seconds where others are struggling to put their power down. The other side is that you can slide around and kick the back end out, is it the best drift car? No, Ferrari is definitely not what you think of in that category, but it's the flexibilty and diverse nature that it can take on that wins the cake. So it's fun and "nonsense" when you want it, but it's also really integral in going fast and cutting time at the track. Ferrari know what they are doing

 

You know what I've learned from these tests that's most shocking? The testers like the 458 best with the CST off.

I thought that it would be with all the electronic gizmo's and without it, it would be a handful. But, it seems like they like the natural handling of the car and the nannies are really that... nannies for us with two left hands who try to drive fast.

It makes me more impressed with the 458.

 

I think right now Ferrari has found the best place to be in building it's road cars. The 458 is incredibly rewarding and a fantastic experience coupled with the ultimate on edge limit pace that makes other manufacturers chase them. Ferrari has proven (with both the Scud and the 458) that they know best how to give the best of both worlds without compromising eachother. Just imagine the lightweight 458

 

I’ve finally solved the weight puzzle.
Yesterday I was finally able to speak with 458 team leader that was my reference during F142 development and, after asking him some working informations, I tried to kid him with ‘ ehi guy why do you send light prototype to comparison test ‘ ?
He kindly invited me to improve the service level of one component delivered by my company instead to waste my time on internet ( god he is right &#8230 but at the end of the call he said the 458 MY2011 had some improvement on suspensions and ECU software for E-diff-2. The weight was improved of a few kilos. EVO ? he said is probably a print error, press cars 2011 are in service in all Europe …
So I counter checked.
Evo test report clearly 458 (plate DP599TV) was tested with less fuel, given weight of 1469 kg could be a 1499 Kg so a 458 with full CF options + 20 kg of fuel.
This is was confirmed by Autobild test (very recent), the car is the same with plate DP599TV.
http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/37915-autobild-handling-test-2011-458-italia-sls-zr1-r8-gt.html
Tested weight 1505 Kg, that means about 26 Kg of fuel on board.
Acceleration 0-100 Km/h (3,3 s) and Braking 100-0 Km/h (32,4 m) matched exactly what they find in October 2010 with the DP599TV plate (the same tested by EVO 148 on Bedford)
Also Auto express tested this car, acceleration data are not different.
Now conspiracy theory is completely and definitely gone, let stay all Mclaren guys racking their brains to find some other excuses.

 

Can you briefly summarize that since you've driven both? From what I gather it's obviously faster and smoother... But has or cured the "bang" into gear when the pedal is down?

 

I've just read the EVO article and it seems that disappointing lap times are the least of the McLaren's problems when it comes up against the 458.

 

This is reflected in the Autocar article too.

 

The first UK tv test takes place tonight on 5th Gear with Tiff Needell and Jason Plato putting the 12C and 458 head to head at the Dunsfold circuit http://fwd.channel5.com/fifth-gear/videos/other/mclaren-teaser

 

I'm drooling already!

 

I'm definitely going to tune in for that.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

The choice of having all of the nannies "off", impresses me the most when looking at the manufacturers real view of it's customers.
Mclaren does not allow it.........

 

to further the controversy if you look at the EVO video at 1 min 36 sec the center console
is all carbon fiber ala the scud also this car has carbon fiber air boxes and intake manifolds.
I tracked the 458 at the Ferrari Experience and while the brakes are very good they are not phenomenal as described in the video- next gen CCM3 brakes?

 

to further the controversy if you look at the EVO video at 1 min 36 sec the center console
is all carbon fiber ala the scud also this car has carbon fiber air boxes and intake manifolds.
I tracked the 458 at the Ferrari Experience and while the brakes are very good they are not phenomenal as described in the video- next gen CCM3 brakes?

 

The McLaren test car was also fitted with all available carbon options so the playing field was level

 

the all carbon fiber center console is not an available option. The available option has
carbon fiber inlay with leather surround.

 

I know the review, but thanks anyway. Yes, the CCB's are beyond annoying, but that's not the biggest problem. the problem is that my preferences changed and I don't want to keep a dedicated track car, which the scud turned into since it is too harsh for an extended street use. Driving to lime rock, Monticello or njmp gets tiring in the scud, but then when I keep it there, I cannot use it for a quick blast on the back roads at home. With Italia carrying extra 500 lbs on the scud, rally pushing it on the track will get even more expensive plus it will not be as much fun. I had high hopes for McLaren and now you can see where my obsession with weight comes from.

 

Wrong my friend. Option code CITZ available from January production this year.
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Definately. No more "bang".

I wrote that specifically a few months ago when I drove one on the track.

It's a plus and a minus. For one thing, I sort of like the F430's mechanical "bang" from an emotional point of view. But from a mechanical point of view, the 458 has the best gearbox I've ever used. It's just instand and the car simply continues to accelerate without any issues.

I also downshifted to the red line and the car just "did it" like there were no issues at all. You hit the paddle and in an instant the car is on the rev limiter.

The real advantage though is at low speed driving. When just putzing around with it, the gearbox is smooth and easy to modulate.

I like the F430 box because of it's speed and control. The 458 gives you all of that with none of the negatives.

 

You're not the first person to tell me the Scud is not a good street car (I've never driven one). I knew one owner who sold his within his first month of owning it after trading up from and F430 coupe. His reason was exactly that.

As a side note: Thank you Kryzs for sticking with us through all this. Your persepective from the other side of the fence is refreshing and adds a lot to the discussion of these two cars.

 

Thanks for the response. I am with you. I kind of like it too. But I will never track my car, just some spirited driving on a few rural roads and when I drive a bit spirited, it can be quite jerky for passengers. And it is even somewhat unpredictable at lesser aggressive behavior. So I'm eyeing impressions on the 458 and specifically the gear box. I love my 430 and know better not to drive a 458 or else I'd sell my house to buy it. Thanks again.

 

The 458 gear box is real smooth. I would not worry about being jerky for the passengers.

 

I suspect (Just my guess here) that they dont fully allow it to be turned off because McLaren uses an open diff and thus needs the TC system to help brake the inside rear tire so it can act as a pseudo LSD. Before we knock open diffs, they do have an advantage of giving crisper turn in as the two rear wheels are more disconnected vs a LSD; the LSD will help promote some initial understeer. However its clear to me that with all the power and weight advantages the McLaren has, something is going on that it is not making bigger numbers around bends and I suspect its the TC/ diff system thats causing the issues. So Ferrari has the car that was earlier to market, and is turning better or similar numbers. McLaren would have to smash the numbers from Ferrari to get a lot of attention IMHO and they do not do that. Or you could say that McLaren has made a great first go of it. Both are true. I would rather have the 458 as I want the intangibles of the emotions and passion and I make a stronger association to the Ferrari. Thats just me.

 

Oh dear, the 12C fails to impress again, or to win a race !

 

Oh dear... Oh dear, dear, dear. Warning for the McLaren fans: Do not watch the Fifth Gear episode. The McLaren gets absolutely slaughtered by the 458. It's not even close.

 

Wow! Both Tiff Needell and Jason Plato gave the 12C a thumbs down. Both of them span off the track due to it's counter intuitive nanny electronics. It was also a second slower around the Dunsfold track with Jason driving both cars. They say it's great on paper but where it counts in the real world the 458 has the better engine, breaks and gearbox and is simply more fun to drive.

Tiff actually looked scared when he spun off the track. I've never seen him like that before.