Red Bull

Are you hinting at a Benetton '94 type season when Senna was absolutely positive Schumacher had some sort of traction control?

Really, I don't think RB is breaking any kind of rule. Vettel is good, but I would really like to see him with a better teammate so I can make my mind up on just how good he is. I believe Alonso, Ham, Rosberg, or Schu would clean his clock.

 

Why can people not accept the fact that he is a great driver?

 

I was wondering too

 

Because it's 80% car 20% driver and the RB has made an eternal mid-pack driver like Webber look like a genius. Get a driver we all know for sure is a brilliant driver in just about any car and see how it goes. I do believe Vettel would have his clock cleaned or at least someone would give him a heckuva run

 

Because they can't see the obvious .

 

So thats it, 80/20, I always wondered, thanks for that.

 

Vettel is a great driver and we've all known this for a long time now. But the RB car these last two years is also outstanding.

I don't care if Ferrari loses. I just don't like to see them not even in the fight.

 

Vettel a great driver? Ha! So, if I were given a go-kart and drove in front of soapbox derby cars, that would make me great? Nope! It would make me an easy Winner every time.

Today, the driving "skill" belonged to Jaime Alguersuari who moved up 10 positions through traffic and dirty air. Could Vettel do that? He hasn't had to because of RBR engineering.

 

Come on anybody can see that the car is dominant, and yes obviously Vettel is good but we are not really seeing a true reflection of his ability this year. Unlike LH though, Vettel did show in the Torro Rosso that he had ability.

Remember the dominant Ferrari years ... even Irvine and Massa could win races easily, so the car is at least 80% of the equation. I'd say it really is 95% of the equation myself.
Pete

 

True, but Vettel is just cruising. When the RB wasn't so good, he still showed his talent.

 

+1!! thank you

 

Jaime Alguersuari did drive a great race today but it was a one off with his seat under threat, Vettel drove a soapbox derby car in the beggining of his time at F1 and beat a few go-karts that is why he his where he is now.

What other F1 world champ can win the crown unless he is in the best car? to drive the best car surely you have to prove that you are worthy? IE a great driver?

 

LH didn't have to ...

Pete

 

If the car is so great, then what the hell is Webber doing in the back. He hasn't even won a race this year. Vettel is amazing, enough said!

 

Webber is not at the back. He just came home third!!

Also we all acknowledge that Vettel is better than Webber, that does not mean Vettel is the best driver on the grid, just a driver better than Webber in the best car on the grid.
Pete

 

Yes he did and got passed by Alonso in a inferior car. The argument here is the Redbull is so great that an okay driver can get in it and win. So if the Rebbull is so great that an average driver can win in, then why hasn't Webber won any races?

 

Er, Webber nearly won last years WDC ... so he has won races in a RedBull, lots of them.

Webber has not won races this year because he is not faster than Vettel (the winner is the first car that finishes and we have already agreed that Vettel > Webber). Pretty simple really. But, remember Webber went from something like last place on the grid to a podium not that many races ago ...

Oh and Alonso got passed Webber because of poor strategy ... according to Webber. Heard that on the radio this morning. Extra pit stop or something.
Pete

 

so Vettel winning with a pos a few years ago, before he got to RB, that had absolutely nothing to do with any sort of talent? and to suggest Schu would clean his clock, or give him a run...that is quite funny.

 

whatever you say doc. whatever you say. every week there's something else, so: bizarre, out of left field posts, that is getting old.

 

you have remember that many folks here have very very limited attention spans and very short memories.

 

+1

 

I'm sorry what were you saying???

 

When Vettel was winning races in inferior cars, or doing great stuff in inferior cars. The BMW Sauber, in his first race, he scores a point (at the ripe age of 19). Winning in a torro Rosso. Driving his way to 3rd in a torro rosso only for Hamilton to mess it all up and vettel ended up crashing into webber.

2009 season when his car wasn't as good as the Brawn and still fighting for a title up until the second to last race. 2010 he had many reliability issues and still wins the WDC. 2011 he's now won 6 out of 8 races, Canada he lost out simply because of the constant safety car. Worst finish of the season is 2nd.

That's just his F1 career. He's 23 years old. He'll have at least 12-15 years in F1 left (unless something happens).

Yes he currently has got the best car, but you don't get the best car just because of the designer. Feedback helps tremendously and Vettel gives just that.

 

Who told you that? Newey or Horner? Just asking.

Anyway.....how anyone can doubt his driving skills is beyond me. MW was almost always the faster of his team mates until Vettel came along.

Want to know how good he is? Just compare the way he's winning races to how MW is having to fight and fight and still not get close.....and after all these years, you can't say MW isn't a great driver, otherwise why would teams keep hiring him?