458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

That's an important point that doesn't seem to have got much coverage but occurred to me at the time. They were both very excited about the car at the start of the test (sure some of that will have been acting up to the cameras, but they seemed genuinely excited) and there can be no doubt that they really wanted to like it. Which makes the come down even harder.

 

Another verdict, this time from Georg Kacher of CAR, giving another perspective on that particular magazine's test. And, of course, chalk another one up for the 458.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Car-Magazines-Blogs/Georg-Kacher-Blog/Georg-Kacher-supercar-summit-counterpoint/

 

This is more like it. Just to show MP4 is hella fast.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGxbfLh4KE[/ame]

Time to sell the 458! It lacks horsepower!

 

Let battle recommence

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/McLaren-MP4-12C-3.8-V8/257947/

 

what a load of crap. the car wasn't hyped, wasn't touted to be 'near' top of class. it was supposed to BLOW AWAY everything. this review is saying 'it's ok fellas, we're sure the next car will be all that'. oh just shut UP! the hype was about the 'here and now'...not some hopeful, wishful bs. letting McLaren off the hook...not wanting to bash them anymore than they are getting. lame, wimpy review.

"Nevertheless, the MP4-12C is a magnificent machine. That many of us expected it to redefine boundaries and expectations says a lot about the engineering talent we expected McLaren to unleash. That the car is so close to the class lead is to McLaren’s credit and, knowing how the company works, we rather suspect its next effort will be easily as worthy as this one"


oh, and the bs that their turbo motor was supposed to give up NOTHING to a NA unit, yeah right:

"There’s noticeable turbo lag on a circuit (see ‘On the limit’, below), though you’d be hard pushed to detect it much on the road. But the turbos have another effect, too. They may well increase the efficiency of this engine, but they don’t do anything for the noise. If you’re listening for the sort of rasp that marks out life with a 458 Italia, or the kind of bellow that makes life with the twin-turbo engine in the new CLS63 AMG so special, you’ll be disappointed. The 12C makes a clean, effective and powerful noise, but when all’s said and done, it’s just a noise."

 

Right I've been lurking and reading this thread for a while and I'm just going to chuck this in here.

I'm not sure how many of you know of Phil Bennet, he's an ex-Le Mans driver, used to hold the record at the ring in the Radical SR3, he an ex-test driver for Noble and Caparo too. These days he runs a trackday company called "The Racing Line".

This guy knows his stuff quite well and is a bit privy to the issues at McLaren.

Alright all the stuff I'm about to post is off the facebook page for his company which he runs and posts on.

I read this stuff quite a while back and all the latest tests have confirmed the issues surrounding the MP4, all this stuff is quite an eye opener, biggest load of information I've read anywhere in regards to the macca beyond simply performance figures.

His first post covering the MP4 was quite general and criticised it for the use of brake steer over a proper LSD

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=192803690748790

His Second post was quite interesting, he kind of slams McLaren for using no roll bars or an LSD, and that ultimately the handling of the MP4 will be compromised. He links it back to the Honda F1 team, which used the same hydraulics set up and it didn't work for them. He also states that it will be interesting whether the GT3 car will the same set-up as the road cars.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=198180070211152

By the end of the month he makes another post in regards to the GT3 car vs MP4 road car.
For those who don't know, The GT3 will not run the road car hydraulics + brake steer set up, instead it will run, guess what, roll bars and an LSD.
This shows that McLaren know that their suspension system using hydraulics is flawed and rectified this problem by using the tried and tested method of roll bars and LSDs.
And for those wondering, Macca have come out and said that the hydraulic system is illegal under the current GT racing regs, however I know for a fact that is completely untrue, they could have run it.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=205857409443418

The last big post he made was about rumors of engine failures, which in turn has delayed the GT3 car, the press release date for its been pushed back. Customer cars have been delayed too.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=220265381335954

If you want to read more, all the posts hes made are under the 'notes' banner.
Chris Harris comments sometimes on the other posts he makes, so he isn't he most unreliable source of information either, this guy used to work in the industry testing in the big EVO tests a few years ago.

The crash at the ring is interesting, because their chief test driver Chris isn't you know, half bad, and after watching that fifth gear video, it is really making me think that the crash may not have been driver error, rather that the MP4 is an absolute animal on the limit.

Anyway, sorry about the long post, turned into a bloody essay, but though I should share that as it is quite an interesting read.


tl;dr - hydraulic system is flawed, didn't work in F1 for Honda, won't work in the real world. And screw you, read what I just wrote.

SERIOUSLY READ IT

 

GREAT POST

so the GT3 will use anti-roll bars and a true limited-slip diff ????

Fascinating

Pretty much tells us all we need to know (in addition to the actual tests, of course) about "weight saving" and "advanced technology" in the road car ....

 

Great post and very interesting! You should post it on McLaren Life Forum to see the reaction ;-)

 

ehm ehm

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140607284&postcount=619

I said it, I said it ....

 

Seriously one of the posts of the year. Congratulations on your first post and getting out with such a bang!

 

+1. Agreed.

 

yeah but you didn't mention the LSD in that post (did you?)

 

damm ....

 

sorry ... i meant the heavy, antiquated LSD that's too heavy & archaic for the road car, but apparently not for the GT3

 

The diversion tactics from the McLaren camp will continue to be fascinating, i'm guessing

First, the old stories about "Ferrari ringers" will be played again, and again, and again ... when the independent test results are clearly & unanimously showing that the MP4 has problems that have nothing to do with the 458. And howabout the mounting evidence that the pre-production MP4's were very different cars than the ones that are being tested now, and probably to be delivered to customers? Wouldn't a very different pre-production car ... that was (perhaps) advertised to be representative of what to expect from production ... be considered a "ringer"?

Second, there'll be more about the "different driving style" required when "piloting" the MP4 (or should i say, "participating in all the glory that is McLaren"). You know, different brake applications and release, different application of throttle, etc. And yet, the journalists reviewing the car were never educated about this? And drivers like Tiff, Jason, Ben Collins (ex Stig) couldn't figure it out on their own? Doesn't feel like that excuse will last long either

 

Roger Green in EVO and Matt Prior in Autocar actually specifically mention that they were given instruction on how to drive the car.

 

please refresh my memory ... did these journalists (who were taught how do drive it) love it, in contrast to the others?

 

Matt Prior picked the 458.

 

The 458 won all these contests only because it was a ringer and highly modified with bigger brakes, sticky tires, higher rpm than normal, titanium exhaust, challenge ecu, titanium driveshaft and other things... This come straight from McLaren Life forum and McLaren dealers so it MUST be true!

;-)

 

"And drivers like Tiff, Jason, Ben Collins (ex Stig) couldn't figure it out on their own?"

also UK test drivers and journalists, so difficult to think that they don't like a minimum Mc Laren cars, so the result is even worst!

 

Photo set from the CAR test. Take a look at the 10th picture down. Might have something to do with the poor showing...

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/McLaren-MP4-12C-supercar-group-test/Supercar-gallery-behind-the-scenes-of-our-McLaren-MP4-12C-group-test/

 

Seems to be quite a lot of fettling with the McLaren, hmm...

 

So much for Ferrari beating reliability...

 

Press 458 must've been equipped with hidden KERS, blown diffuser, unrestricted DRS and super secret Pirellis because they are Italians too.