458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

It's funny how ridiculous this actually looks when you break it down like this.

 

I wonder how Fifth Gear are going to respond to that accusation from McLaren.

Great review, Jeff.

So... most journalists are saying that the McLaren MP4-12C either has poor performance or chaotic handling due to the electronic aids interfering with the driver's command. McLaren's response is that it's not a performance or handling problem and the design of the electronics is fine... actually, it's a durability issue and the car keeps breaking. I wonder why they perceive that as being somehow preferable???

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Oh... and don't look at the Porsche and Lambo spider that also beat us...

 

it's a bit sad, really ... and i'm thinking you would absolutely agree.

I bet the MP4-12C is a fantastic car to drive, for us mere mortals!

Sad because, right now McLaren is really suffering the bad consequences of it's own marketing campaign. They targeted Ferrari, obsessed, and when the car doesn't quite measure up (at least, in early tests), they have left themselves no choice, in a sense, but to try to drag Ferrari down. Had they not targeted the 458 with such pre-production "vigor", right now the tests would probably be seen in a much more positive light ... early car, clearly some bugs to work out, but looks like a very promising contender in this price & performance segment.

 

Absolutely correct. I have said since day one their marketing of this car is all wrong. And, I also said they should have concentrated on making a great car instead of trying to be another Ferrari with a world wide launch in one year.

They still can't get their electronics working and haven't delivered a single car. Their excuses for the car not performing to expectations is that it's broken. Wow... I sure have confidence now in plunking down $250K on a car I haven't even driven. They won't have test cars in the US until November --- after when the first deliveries are supposed to be.

They are burning the candles at both ends instead of concentrating on what's important.

 

LOL...Bob, look at this way. By November or December, you and I will have our 458's by then and will be quite happy driving them oblivious to the plight of the infamous, as yet underachieving 12 C.

 

What's really funny is that a few Mac chaps can say anything they want on Fchat -- Ferrari sucks, Ferrari cheats, Ferrari's are big Fiats -- whatever. But, when a few people on their forum start to have doubts and raise the other side of the issue, they call them trolls and shut them down!

That, to me, is the biggest LOL of all. If you can't be thick skinned enough to even accept an alternative view being posted, you have a problem in being objective.


Ferrari people say this over and over again. We like the Mac. We like the technology. We like the competition -- but we are not convinced enough to jump brands.

Mac people will say -- we are all posers, we support cheaters, we don't understand what makes a "good" car, and when "the truth" is revealed, the 12C will trounce the 458 on any day.

To which we say: We don't care.

To which they say: See, I told you you're a fanboy poser!

 

Wonder how bad the GT car will get it's ass handed back if they're dropping the ball on the street car?

 

It's already been delayed because of engine failures...

 

Wow...a case study in how not to start a high performance sports car company, IMHO. I can't imagine the people with deposits on the 12 C are feeling very confident in their decision.

 

totally bailing, Anyway, I'd keep my California any day despite it is slower. It sounds way better anyway. The California provides me more sense of occasion than a Mc. Mc is brilliant, just that it went up against a better car, one that's more brilliant and best in class. Long story. Saga ends but drama hasn't till refunds back.

 

I was a pending customer. When I tried to be objective, I became a troll for being analytical and less partial. Banned.

 

Is it just me or does the roll out of the McLaren seem targeted at the chav crowd?

 

Have you seriously been banned??? Damn they are totally crazy in that forum!

These are the guidelines posted on the forum. Are you kidding me?
"Guidelines for Posting
First and foremost, welcome to McLaren Life!

A few quick guidelines to keep things on track and useful for owners on the site. If we can all follow this, it will help the community.
Introduce yourself is the intro section is a good way to get started.
Avoid bashing owners for their purchase decision, there are lots of great cars and the 12C is one of them. We do not care what the media or Clarkson thinks.
Drive the 12C yourself before commenting about the car, helps if you truly know from experience rather than just repeating what some other guy thinks or says in a post, magazine or TV show."

 

I saw that. I couldn't believe it! Those guys are really touchy. They started to question your "loyalty" to McLaren because of your questioning.

Loyalty???

What you were saying over there was anything but being a troll.

 

We are all free to express our own opinions and our wallets by declining to purchase the 12C at this current time. Frankly, it's laughable that you would be banned for expressing concerns about a purchase of that magnitude. Of course you want your money's worth, who wouldn't. The 458 is stunning, crazy fast and just plain sexy IMHO and that's what motivates me enough to write the check LOL. Welcome and smart move, IMO.

 

Oh by the way, loyalty like respect is earned, not demanded in case any of the Mac guys are listening.

 

What a Ferrari fanboy!!!!!

 

I see from over there that McLaren are really pushing the boat out with compensatory gifts to pacify customers They really have found a new breed of customer..... one who will not tolerate negative views of the press test drive fiascos and who thinks branded tat worth a hundred £ pounds or so is worth getting excited about as a reward for their "loyalty" in waiting for their delayed car. What happened to the "we hate Ferrari due to their brand merchandising" mantra?? Seems to me like they are happily sucking up branding as long as it's from Woking. Double standards if ever I have seen it

 

It's ok I am bailing and now worrying that I won't even get my deposit back without fighting. That's what I don't want. Asked not to say too much with another fellow. Banned, he was cos he was forthcoming asking for empirical evidence. It's ok. No point arguing.

Different. The MP4 is a good car as well as many other cars like C63 or Bimmer M3. All good cars. For me, I am lining up for my 458 which is brilliant. To me( just me), the MP4 is a good car but it went up against a better car in my personal opinion. Different folks, different strokes and I feel that my California feels better than the MP4 too. Just the way it is. Subjective now but I do feel that the deliverables didn't quite meet what I expected. Guess I didn't manage my expectations well enough.

Also, the car was highly spoken about by Ron Dennis. I should've managed that's all. Partially my fault.

It would be a mistake if I trade in my Cali for a MP4. I have little chance to get a 458 due to quota but I'd rather keep my California after analysis.

The decision to buy a car is a function of many variables "brand equity, feel good factor, engine sound, noise, history, looks..." There are many metrics and while the car is good, it didn't fit my metrics that was what I said.

Also, dealer gave response that the 458 was not of std spec and the MP4 car used was a prototype. Anyway, facts too intricated but to be honest, a little hard to believe, given Ron's character, to put up a prototype to be on a d day battle to show off its best claimed baby. I was informed by Phil dealer that the car was a proto and it went up against something beyond std and Mc was trying to have a fair gentleman race and was caught off guard. I have no comment and m not qualified to as no one would know but given the circumstances and tests on EVO CAR and all mags for the summer, it would be logical (educated guess) to think that no company will just put up a NON ready yet prototype spec. I am not qualified to comment but I truly hope for pending buyers that the car was broken and was a prototype and McLaren was the equitable british gentleman who got caught off guard. Even if I am not taking the vehicle, I do want those buying it to have what philly dealers' information materializing. It's ok. I just like 458, for the brand, the looks (I prefer the more organic and look of the 458 which i find the best looking in current era Ferraris. I did also like the Testarossa but I am not sure about others. It's more personal decision nothing against Mc. Also, as to the sound, I also think Ferrari gives sounds I like better. The F40 was antiquated and an efficient engine at 2.9 L V8 Twin Turbo and someone shared his view with me that it sounds truly WICKED. I saw one at my dealers' and it was very classic and the engine did sound very good. So I think Ferrari does the orchestra part well for me even with twin turbos v8. Again, I don't feel appropriate to compare the soundtrack of MP4 and 458 as we all like different sound tracks.

I truly hope that McLaren was using a prototype because it was trying to rush to market without realizing what it is up against. Maybe the prototype did well over the 458. I was reassured in the following manner "wait till customer takes delivery, wait for test drive, wait for fine tuning you will be truly pleasantly surprised". Well at this moment, I do want to spend my hard earned money (I can only have one good car I am not at the level to have a few) on something that no one questions. If I have to keep answering and justifying my purchase, it is not an emotional buy. For that, I'd buy stocks if I am so analytical but at the end of the day, there's always some craziness and emotions to such amount of money to be spent on a depreciating means of transport when a 20,000 USD car can do. So for that, I pay for emotions and not justifications.

 

As an aside, product aisde, Ferrari V McLaren has to take the battle off track too:

Dennis said he intends to sell as much as 47 percent of McLaren Automotive by the end of the year to reduce debt. The executive, who hired Credit Suisse Group AG (CSGN) to manage the equity sale,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-22/mclaren-spends-1-billion-on-super-cars-to-challenge-ferrari-1-.html

Ferrari:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-17/ferrari-should-be-valued-at-7-2-billion-in-ipo-marchionne-tells-bankers.html

Now another Brit is ahead, Aston is going IPO

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-06/aston-martin-plans-china-car-push-awaits-ipo.html

McLaren has no plan till late

http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/4508/mclaren-sold-out-but-mp4-12c-china-launch-in-2013

I think for year one, production is delayed and also it will under deliver 1000 vehicles supposedly. Given the huge sunk costs, it is in the best interests of McLaren to keep all deposits in system. Any fallen off sales would affect Ron's stake which he still owns majority and he needs to sell his shares through credit suisse year end still. A lot at stake. The war is not finished! Fezza is ahead but let's hope the other competitor provides some good competition.

 

calitalia:

I think the way the guys at Mac Life treated you was totally crappy. That was completely uncalled for. If you get back on there, you should give them a piece of your mind. It may be a permaban but someone needs to get a life, not a mac life.

The guys in Woking definately read that forum so if you have some issues, they will get it. Of course, your dealer will also pass over your issues.

As to getting your deposit back, there is no way they should not. I would not let that get in your way if you really don't want the car.

But, if you change your mind and get the mac, you've still got friends here.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

 

he,s still got friends at mc life too,if you actually read his posts,you will find many of us tried to help him .Im pleased he has gone with a 458,as this seems to be the car he desires,
I might be wrong ,but i dont think he was ever banned,and probably got the wrong end of the stick.
There are obviously alot of differences of opinion between the two sites,and there are many members who will have both cars,passion runs deep in both camps,as it does in motorsport,enjoy your ferraris,as we will enjoy our mclaren,s
cheers
Andy c

 

Andy: I do agree it wasn't you but I sure didn't see a lot of complaining from many about overly banning people just because they ask touchy questions.

You're a stand up guy and I'm sure calitalia appreciates that.