2011 FORMULA 1 SANTANDER BRITISH GRAND PRIX: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

What a fantastic race, only to be disturbed by idiotic and inconsistent penalties.

 

Well, the pits changed so you go through them much faster. That's why they changed to stop-and-go.

 

True! But look at Hamilton. Huge talent, but he is undoubtedly all or nothing like Schumacher and Senna. So I guess not so consistent? Look how he was on '09. Definitely all or nothing. Alonso was the same way

 

Absolutely.

Why do you think Webber was pushing Vettel? He forced RB to come on air and tell him to back off so the whole world can see what hypocrites they are.
There is no question Webber was significantly faster at the end.

 

+1 agreed. Webber is the better driver in traffic. Vettel proved he has a bit to learn when it comes to cage fighting which is sort of what mid-pack driving is these days which tires and DRS being what they are

 

Planet F1's review of the race.

http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7031645/Conclusions-From-The-Brit-GP

I love the Brit sense of humor to wit:

McLaren Are Nuts
For a company that operates with an attention to detail that would impress NASA, and a cleanliness that would shame the NHS, McLaren's penchant for stupidity is a modern-day sporting phenomenon. The seriousness is that it is scarcely believable that a company that essentially exists to drive two racing vehicles on twenty occasions a year can continue to make so many cock-ups, and the only consolation is that at least they make their business appear rathermore difficult than it sounds.

This weekend's particular idiocy began in the early stages of qualifying when, with rain falling into pouring, they sent both their drivers out on soft tyres to waste valuable tread. Goodness knows why. It continued onto race day when they miscalculated their fuel load by a massive margin - Hamilton claims he was first told to slow 21 laps from home. No other team struggled with their fuel estimate, never mind erred to such incredible extent.*

And then, most obviously, there was the Button shambles, which was just plain embarrassing. Not such since McLaren left a bung on his car in Monaco has the team provided such cringe.

A little farce makes for entertaining viewing but McLaren have become the joke that isn't funny any more.

 

Not sure about that. And that's not bashing on Webber. Yes, he was about to pass Vettel, but do we really know whether Vettel was as fast as he could go or just cruising to preserve tires and engine?

For all we know, Vettel might have known that the team would call Webber back and never given it a second thought to run away from Webber.

Fans don't like team orders, but they are here for a reason: Every leading team wants to win the championship and the chances of doing so are maximized by giving the max points to your leading driver. In addition: There is no point in having your two drivers fight each other when they're running both so high up (and there is no time left for the 2nd driver to catch the first placed car).

RB made the right call.

 

I know you hate data such as lracing lap and sector times, but here are some anyway showing how much quicker Webber was post RB's final tire change to the end beginning at lap 40:

Webb
95.67
97.09
95.91
95.72
96.28
96.71
96.36
96.24
96.54
95.67
95.97
97.88
98.44


Seb
96.42
97.23
96.85
96.30
96.38
96.63
96.76
96.83
96.78
96.74
97.04
98.39
98.52



The rest of the race is a bit of an unfair assessment as one or the other was in some sort of traffic at the time, but at the end both were very much in the clear.

 

Webber has come out and said he was told to "maintain the gap" earlier than when we heard it on the radio, a few laps before the end.

He said that he ignored the order and did his best to pass Vettel.

So, any claims that RBR screwed Mark's race with team orders can be put to rest. From the horses mouth itself, we know that they told him to stay behind, and he ignored that, but couldn't make the pass.

Good on Mark for ignoring the order - he gained a lot of respect from me today.

 

I'd have to see that one sector on lap 50 to know for certain he didn't back off as told. He was basically past Vettel and then slowed up allowing Seb to keep the lead. Webber may have slowed because of the angle of the corner (Seb had the inside line), but it seemed to me that he simply conceded the pass.

I still am left with doubts that Seb beat Webber without team orders. Regardless, it's over now and on to the next race.

 

In that case, he really does deserve to be the number 2 driver and we should congratulate Vettel for some excellent defending.

 

If he backed off it wasn't because of team orders. His own words:

"The team radioed me about four times, asking that I maintain the gap to Seb," explained Webber. "But I wasn't happy with that because you should never give up in Formula 1, so I continued to push."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93033

He probably just realized that Seb was in a strong enough position to defend and he couldn't get passed.

 

I'm not against RBR having made that call. I would have too. A Horner said, it IS a team.

I've always thought Ferrari's way of doing things was the best way to achieve what everyone is out there to achieve....WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

We've seen many times what happens when two team drivers take points from each other.....sometimes it costs them the championship....sometimes they crash into each other.

Of course, though, I'm having a huge chuckle at RBR's expense over their complete back flip over this issue of team orders. Hypocrites!

 

+1. I have no problem with the call. If the lead driver was nursing a car, or is 1-2 seconds down per lap, fine, let him by. In this instance, both cars were relatively healthy and to allow repeated attacks from a teammate considering the possible consequences would be insanity. Protecting a sick car when in a tight point race with a competitor, same deal.

 

You just don't get it, do you? I don't hate MS, and don't think anybody here does. He's a great guy, he had a great run, and his 7-title record will probably never be broken. But that's IN THE PAST.

There's always an excuse for EVERY FREAKING RACE. He has been beaten by Nico on almost every race (not-at-fault DNFs shouldn't count). He even admitted himself he screwed up with Kobi in Silverstone, and you were still making excuses for the guy, and whining for his penalty.

All of last season people made excuses arguing he didn't develop the car, that it wasn't his fault, and blah, blah, blah. But in 2011, he wouldn't have any more excuses. And here you are still making them after EVERY RACE, on the car he helped develop. And we don't have to compare him to the top drivers. As Tifosi said, Nico is driving an MS-developed car, and he's still beating the crap out of him. It's not just one race. Or two, Or three. CONSISTENTLY. And that's exactly what a great driver needs: CONSISTENCY. A fastest lap here, a quickest sector there means CRAP. There're no points or trophies for any of that.

So who's blind? We're not 'MS haters' man; we live in reality, backed by solid, undisputed data. His best days are history. He's done. He's not superhuman. Simple biological common sense; he can't compete with guys basically half his age, period. He lost his focus, which is normal with aging. That's why you don't see 40+ year-old true athletes (don't include golf, please winning world championships. It's not hate; it's reality. It's common sense. But for some folks, they have to make a fool out of themselves trying to prove only other people age, but not them. Same thing happened to Valentino Rossi. He's also making a fool out of himself now. Yes, he still rides great, but he can't compete with top riders anymore, no matter what bike he tries. I could make the excuse 'but he crashed'. Yeah, but he crashed because he's not the same rider anymore; doesn't have the same focus/stamina. It's a vicious circle that continues to go downhill. Different but yet so similar to MS. Both peaked years ago. It's downhill after that. Reality sucks.

After losing to his teammate 90%+ of the time (almost 30 races so far, including DNFs that weren't Nico's fault), you must admit you've been crying wolf man . And if you still call us 'haters', then you're his 'lover' < ha ha>, because there's no other rational way to explain your obssession with him . Time to root for another driver. Later man.

 

Bdelp said it best: MS is a midfield driver now and there is no point in obsessing over him one way or the other. And I wouldn't either if it wasn't for the eternal fanboys coming on here constantly telling us about MS great latest race and how he will win podiums, races and WDCs if only the darn car were better.

That said what would this forum be without some friendly jousting?

 

The time when real racing drivers show their merit is in the wet, and Nico has now proven in a large way this season that he is nothing compared to Michael. The lap times don't lie. Nico is more consistent, but boring and lackluster. It's not excuses, it's reality. And you will never find even close to a majority who believe the penalty was deserved and that Schu didn't drive the beejesus out of the car compared to Nico. LOOK at the lap times for crying out loud.

Unfortunately all the technical problems this season combined with just plain back luck is really ruining his points and you nor any professional driver (sorry, but I tend to listen to them before anyone else) state that he has not remained the superior driver. It's like Senna and Prost in '89 at Suzuka. Just a superior driver with terrible luck. And I knew following this race that the, "Schu is over" crowd would be very much out in force here for all the ludicrous and cop out reasons they love to spout. Tell me, where was this crowd when Schu ran in Canada? Why is this crowd not putting Nico under the microscope wondering why he qualifies a tiny bit quicker yet has such terrible and boring races where he take zero chances and gets caught behind drivers such as Perez???! If you add up the technical problems Michael had early in the season and hand those problems to Nico, then Michael is well ahead in the points. So give me a break now.


And the comments regarding a "car being designed for a driver" are off. The only time a car specifically needs to be fundamentally changed is when two drivers of polar opposite driving styles are swapping seats. Perfect example is Button's car going to Schu last year. It's in the past, no big deal. Nico and Michael have very close driving styles and both prefer a very oversteery car with a snappy tail. Both also have razor sharp turn-in although Michael is a bit more and almost too aggressive at turn-in. So to say the car was designed for one or the other is just dumb. Brawn stated multiple times last year they were designing a 'good' car not meant for either driver, not that it mattered as their driving styles are incredibly similar anyway.

 

Tks for the explanation. For a moment I almost forgot the number 1 rule you taught me this season:

The driver who finishes second to his teammate is actually the better driver. How could I forget?!

Maybe we need an update on Rob's statistics?

 

Pass on the technical issues Michael had at the beginning of the season to Nico and Michael is ahead not to mention he has been a superior starter and carries superior race pace. You cannot argue those points because those numbers don't lie. Unfortunately the numbers that matter are yielded from horrible technical luck Michael suffered. How is that his fault???

 

I have to agree.

But the screw ups went up and down pit lane.

Lots of pressure half way through the season.

 

So what? There are quite a number of mid field drivers.....I don't see the problem.

 

Ones in a Red Bull. He's standing in second

 

We dont know that. All we know is that Rosberg usually finishes ahead of MS.
What if their car is pure garbage truck and Rosberg is carrying it to incredible heights as a 7 time WDC who still has his stuff looks on in amazement.
I say both need to get cut some slack.
Its not like SV vs MW or FA vs FM.
MS still has his moments and when its raining thats when they are apparent.

 

That's actually the part where we agree: I don't have a problem with MS occupying a seat. There are a bunch of other midfield drivers who aren't any better.

The thing that irks me are the cheerleaders telling us MS would win his 8th title if the car was any better. My answer: first outdrive Nico

 

Fair enough. He's said the same thing since day one re Nico btw.