Car & Driver tests 458, McLaren and GT2

Interesting analysis.

The Ferrari TIED the 12 C in "vehicle"
The Ferrari BEAT the 12C in "Power train"
The Ferrari LOST to the 12C in Chassis (however 12c also LOST to the Porsche)
The Ferrari BEAT the 12c in "experience"


So the 12 C didn't win outright one category -- and they called it "best".

Personally, I don't care but it's interesting to see how writers twist their stories to fit what they want.

If you look at the things I most care about: Styling (inside and out), Fit and finish, Engine, gearbox, and driving experience, I think I made the right choice.

And, I would say that anyone getting a GT 2 is getting a heck of a car for the money.
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202 plays 200. The corks will be popping over at McLarelife...

 

I think 5th gear got it right. The engine isn't as good, the gearbox isn't as good, and the experience isn't as good.

If you look at the MT scorecard, they really dinged the Italia over price. If that were just one point difference with the 12C, this would have been a tie. To me, that's a bit extreme given the MSRP difference between the two. In the article, they slam the 458's options costs.

But, even if the Italia came in third here, it wouldn't matter to me. If you put a 355 up in that same test, 355 owners would still choose the 355 even if coming in fourth. That's the point that is the most difficult to overcome.

 

Unless my maths has gone a bit squiffy, hasn't the McLaren scored 201, not 202?

Would you trust a reviewer that can't add up

 

LOL!!!!! You are correct!!!

 

If you dig deeper Ferrari has 8 best scores with Mac having 5. In addition PRICE resulted in Ferrari loosing most points to Mac (3). So interpreted correctly if you factor out price (an people choosing between these two cars probably have already) - Ferrari wins!!!

 

Which I would say is too close to call! I demand a recount!

 

I'm tired of the stupid categories that really don't count.....

Cargo space?? Nobody is carrying a full set of luggage in any of them....
Price....? They all cost an arm and a leg...
What's next, Cup holders???

Looks, check
Performance, check
Fun to drive!!! Double check.....

Keep the McLaren and enjoy the extra trip to starbucks with the savings.... Oh wait, I'm buying a Ferrari, I think I can afford the grande carmel machiato with extra shot of espresso..

Tony.......................

 

Well said. I guess the Mac guys can cheer they won the "features and amenities" list 10 to 9 and that put them "over the top" of the 458. Imagine how much more it would be if their electronic radio, wi-fi, and nav actually worked!

 

They obviously didn't have the new improved 12C...just tweaked to live closer to the 458.

From Evo:

"McLaren has responded to criticism of the newly launched MP4-12C by rushing through a package of revisions for the newly-launched supercar.

What’s even more impressive is that it took the company just eight days to create the modified version of the car – which evo’s Harry Metcalfe was first to drive.

When the MP4-12C lost out to the Ferrari 458 in our grouptest (evo issue 159) Harry sent a personal message to Anthony Sheriff, McLaren’s MD, outlining some of improvements he thought could be made to the car. These included changing the weighting of the gearchange rocker mechanism, tweaking the steering and improving the sound of the car.

Much to Harry’s surprise, just eight days after sending the email he was invited to McLaren HQ in Woking to sample a revised version of the car incorporating the changes that he had suggested – which McLaren is planning to incorporate into future production versions. Harry’s verdict: ‘it’s vastly better.’

‘In F1 there’s no time to mull things over,’ said Anthony Sheriff, ‘you look at a situation, you make a decision and you get the solution on the car for the next race. In the car division we reflected on the comments made, looked at alternative solutions and had them on cars within a day or two and now they’ll be going into production. At McLaren we have the mentality to react to things very quickly.’"

 

Exact! and quite funny to consider the 12C is a better car based on this 3 "price" points!!

 

and ignore this from their own evaluation:

Ferrari: Better appearance inside and out
Ferrari: Better fit and finish
Ferrari: Better engine
Ferrari: Better gearbox
Ferrari: Better "fun" driving experience.


And still the Mac is first? What more could you want or expect in a great exotic sports car? Looks like the guys at Motor Trend still would think the Renault Alliance was a good choice for Car of the Year.

Here's a clue. If using the same criteria they evaluated the 250 GTO versus a Pontiac GTO, the Pontiac would win.

250: Price as tested -- score 16.
Pontiac: Price as tested -- score 20

250: Ride quality -- score 7
Pontiac: Ride quality -- score 10

250: Amenities and equipment -- 5 (doesn't even have a radio!)
Pontiac: Amenities and equipment -- score 10

 

The last one..the driving experience means most to me. The price is not a factor but it helps getting the Ferrari engine, transmission, and fit and finish help to neutralize the price. I think the option prices are unreasonable but I am choosing those unreasonable priced options and not forced to. I've never regretted getting options that I really wanted.

 

I don't really understand how anyone can score price for cars in the $250-300K range. That's just stupid.

 

Wow... when is this bullsh*t comparing the Mclaren and the 458 going to end!?

They're both available, people should buy which ever they choose, and that should be the end of it. But nooooooooo there's always a constant competition trying to prove which is "better"...

 

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Anyone chosing the Mac is getting a great car that matches their taste. No shame in that.

The same goes for the 458.

To some degree, it's like trying to see who you would ask out first for a date: Selma Hayek or Jessica Alba. Somehow the idea of "winning" or "losing" doesn't apply. I don't think you'd be disappointed in either.

 

Exactly my point! +1

 

Comparisons will never end. They are evident in every facet of life from movies to shopping for food to our jobs and to our families we are always comparing things to see which is better. Some things can objectively be proven to be better such as acceleration, braking, etc where as other things are more subjective such as styling and "fun to drive"... I for one like discussing the subjectives because objectives can not be debated and are what they are.... So to answer the question, The BS will never end...............

Tony.................

 

I agree - all three are bloody impressive: sub 7s to 100mph, 11s 1/4 mile, stop from 70mph in 145 ft and pull over 1g on the skidpad. Compare this to the uber cars from a few years ago and you see how much things have moved on.

 

surely, the pr department saved itself from further embarassments. The fact that they tweaked the original test car within 8 days shows good and prompt response in listening to press and customer demands. It deserves compliments.

On the flip side, to make the car more emotional could also mean one thing. They need to make the car more benchmark like which is not what they wanted in the first place (otherwise, why do they need to tweak it?). Nonetheless, to turn a boomerang into a prancing pony is the wrong idea according to Ron Dennis. Clarkson made it clear that they do need to look up the word "FUN" in the dictionary and the fact that they are making it more FUN to drive means they are trying to play catch up. Defying the original concept to protect sales.

Anyway, I have picked the 458 over the Macca regardless.

 

This I definitely agree x 3. They are both great great cars. To each his own.

However, this is interesting read from EVO:

At McLaren we have the mentality to react to things very quickly...

It makes me think that (maybe I am wrong) at the end of the day, they still have the 458 always being the big shadow in the background despite starting with a completely new clean sheet design... at the end of the day, they have to react to make the MP4-12c more 458 like = more emotions more fun

Anyway, they are both very good.

As I did buy both and am pulling out on Macca, I aptly said on Mc Life, they are both good.

Better is in the eye of the beholder too like Bdelp said. To me, (excuse my business school case study analogies), there will always be comparisons on the two just like:

1. McDonald's V Burger King
2. Coke Versus Pepsi
3. Nike Versus Reebok
4. Boeing Versus Airbus

Nonetheless, as I say, which one is which, it is obvious but I love my Big Mac but I also like a Whopper (although I do not eat fast foods). Some facts can be judged independent of subjective facts (Does Whopper taste better than Big Mac? Who can say definitively right?) like market share, sales and net revenue and popularity. With that said, it doesn't mean that Burger King doesn't make good burgers. In fact, to many, it makes way better burgers (made on spot rather than pre made like McD).

However, sometimes, the irrational purchase like spending this sort of money on a car goes beyond logical comparisons. McDonald's the Golden Arch will always be the most recognized symbol/brand just like Coke will always be.

MBA case study aside, my money goes to Ferrari. Regardless of how many positive reviews pick Macca over 458, I still pick the Ferrari, for personal taste and reason.

Now the issue, getting my refund back and finding a 458 that I can actually buy new... tough.

 

Mclaren takes a point over the 458 in "Fuel Economy" and 3 points over the 458 in "As-tested price", thats a four point swing that we know no one really cares about. Are you ever gonna drive your 458 and pull up to a Lambo or another car at a stoplight and say, "Yeah 14 mpg what do you get like 10?"

 

I really agree here. It's the stupidity of the US press to try to critique super cars the same way you would a Chevy Cruze vs a Toyota Camry. And they wonder why enthusiasts buy UK mags...

 

Wonder what they did to boost to get those kinds of acceleration numbers?

Taz
Terry Phillips