Balance tires and knock of wheels BB

I am looking to buy tires for my BB and as I was searching old stuff I came across the flat ring I had machined many years ago in order to balance the knock offs properly for a perfect ride.
The purpose of the ring is to keep the wheel perfectly aligned to the balancing machine for a perfect and true balance.

Does anyone here ever got involved in the issue of balancing the knock offs properly since their design and shape(concave centers) poses a problem with perfect mounting on a balancing machine.
I wonder what other different options might have come available through the years if any.

I am also interested on opinions on tires today for my BBi .

Right now she is wearing perfect looking P zeros that are over a decade and a half old.
I run 245 17s at front and 285s at rear.

I am thinking to go to pilot 2s.

Mario

 

Its very difficult to balance spline hubs on regular balance machines, you can try different cones and such but they never get the wheels perfect so no wobble to get the exact balance

I went though a lot of trouble with my BB512 wheels had a front shimmy for ever, finally took the wheels to the local dealer here Pensky Wynn and they balanced them turns out they needed weights on the outside of the wheel the ugly old tap on kind but it worked no more shimmy.

 

How amazing ,out of the whole BB community no one else wants to post here about what you have experienced and you are not the only one......

Even more amazing is the fact that the stock TRXs do not balance as good as most Michelins suppose to

Another reason of why BBs are not appreciated as they should be in the US.
I bet they do not drive with tires out of balance in Europe.

Who loves a car that does not handle and has a shimmy on the steering wheel!
When you do your tires are way out of balance as they can still be out of balance or proper roadforce or round enough and get no vibes....but that is another subject.

The rest of the cars with out knock offs will not have this issue.

Bubble balancing is one way and can be done with out the weight showing.

The other that worked for me is the machined ring that is even to the last thousand of an inch all around and be able to balance your tires on a BB anywhere.
Part of the on board tool box and always available.

Mario

 

what wheels are you running Mario? I'm looking at the Image Wheels that 412monzaindy put on last year...I know Ross had bad experience regarding manufacturing, but I just can't bring myself to pay $600 a tire AND wait until October to get them!!

Have you decided on tires? the image wheels were 17" and seemed to fit nicely with
255/50/17 and 235/50/17
Kuhmo Z Rate tires ( the only tire manufacturer with these sizes)--412monzaindy had these tires.....

thanks for any insight...

didn't have any issues (still don't) with my 6 year old rubber as far as balancing except rears are shot...although can't remember the last time I launched her off the line-

also--read a couple threads that some didn't like modern tires on their BBi--said didn't handle/drive as well (maybe at slower speeds)...any comment?

can't imagine modern rubber and 17"-18" wheels wouldn't be a nice improvement.......thanks to any and all for input!

 

My wheels are custom built with Etoile centers and as far the wheel goes with the knock off hub it is the same issue balancing stock rims with TRXs and any after market wheel with the stock knock offs in them.....I guess most are not too sensitive to balance ....

The Boxer is an awesome handling car and that is why it was built with TRxs for the street all the way through the end of production.
The first TRs came out with TRxs and knock offs and those trxs were 240/45 at front and 280/45 at rear with 415 rims(16.3 inch)
They did not handle bad being lower profile at front on Trs because they are not BBs.

The a arms on a BB are a very different construction with zero flex made out of incredibly strong metal of solid construction unlike the later cars.

The BBs have a chassis that if you are a fanatic and get involved you will be amazed with their precision and engineering.
I remember measuring my car once on a super accurate machine and we were amazed how perfect the BB chassis measures down to the last fraction of a mm.
With adjustable ride height stock konis by dropping the rear right just a hair the car measures with me in it precisely 50% diagonal corner weights!

The grip on a BB at the rear is so great that if modern tires and taller rims are in use the total result is too much traction at speed and my guess is most peoples complain will be at speed not slow unless their rims offset and alignment are faulty which is the case with most of these cars.

The suspension geometry and sensitivity of these cars to alignment is amazing.

This is of course provided all is in order and good shape and best with some mods as in steering gear bushings and A arm bushings as well.
Stock A arms bushings effect spring ratio and can effect improper flex of A arms also.

Regardless of these possible improvements BBs with sticky rubber will wonder a little on grooves etc unless aligned properly.
The trick is a little less rear toe and camber that will allow the front end to drive the car by loosening up the rear a little but enough to maintain handling out of corners.
A little more Neg camber at front will allow the front to turn in faster and some more toe in will help the car point nicely.

Tricky part is to match the front wheel off set to king pin inclination also for stock set up with what ever tire size and camber you will run since the difference in tire radius at front was made to run with tall tires and no camber at static ride with the stock geometry of very little neg camber gain in compression.
Keep in mind modern rubber at full height of the old TRxs might ride taller than you want since their sidewall percentage allowed a lot smaller running radius than the total tire size on the self might suggest.

I like caster at three degrees instead of four as recommended on the manual of the later cars which makes the steering both lighter and more responsive.

Some think too much caster is better......in all cars but this is a BB.....

I like 245 /45 and 285/40s on my car and I have a problem with Michelins I wanted not having my size at rear but 275s
I have a set of 17-18 year old P zeros if any one wants them with full tread that i do not want on my car anymore for safety reasons even though they do not feel dry being inside always but the dates on them give me warnings.........
I might have to give some continentals a try at high performance rubber showing a high rank at the tire rack

Are we still on topic? Oh well lets keep these beauties balanced and handling like they deserve on the street.

Mario

 

Fantastic clear and concise response. Not completely unhappy with the old rubber in that it's correct and it's not like I'm testing the limits of traction on a daily basis. Just don't like to be told $600 each AND you'll wait till October and like it!! But after all I've read, I think I'll stay with what the factory fitted her with. Many thank Mario!

 

You are wellcome.. ....the best part of modern tires on a BB is driving at a scary pace for most and never hear a tire squeal......like being on rails....I never found a limit where i felt the car was not solid way past my limits of going fast.....

Mario

 

I have not problems balancing the Image Wheels for my 512bb.

 

Post what Mario?
I know you have a BBi, yet you talk about BB and BBi as if they are the same car. Basically the BBi uses different wheels and different tires than the BB does, plus you have aftermarket wheels and tires on your car, so how would balancing tires on my car compare to balancing on your car?
Basically with all your interchanging of BB and BBi, I don't even know what car you're talking about.
The tires on my BB balance perfectly using a Hunter balancing machine.
John

 

We balanced the bb wheels for 412, you need a proper wheel balancer (german made) that has been calibrated. Most times the wheels are not 100% perfect, making balancing difficult.

 

John

What attachment do you use on a Hunter to mount your knock of type spline (rims) for balancing?

Have you ever balanced them then dismount ,mount again and see if you zero out and at what final weight increment do you balance your tires at?

Mario

 

Mario,
I don't know what they used for attachments. I know the machine was a Hunter Roadforce, and you can check it out at the link below;
http://www.hunter.com/balancer/roadforce/

I had this balance done when I was installing new tires, and after a couple years and a couple thousand miles I do know that my car doesn't have any signs of an unbalance on the tires. No wobble, shimmy or vibration on the steering wheel at any speed or condition (braking, cornering), and no signs of unbalance wear on the tire tread either.
So far I've never felt the need to re-check the balance.

Again, these are Michilin XWX tires and BB wheels with the three ear spinners, which are Not the same as BBi tires and wheels, or the ones your running. However I expect the Hunter balancing machine will balance them as well as it did mine!

Google 'Hunter roadforce' and you can find locations that have the machine.

John

 

Thanks John

I always stay tuned with who has the latest newer road force machine through out the area I live since I am a little picky.....

Mario