Synthetic Gear Oil in 246 Dino.

I recently replaced the gear oil in my 246 Dino with Royal Purple Max-Gear 75W140 synthetic. The overall shifting improved and I've not seen any evidence of increased seal leaking.

However, I did notice that in downshifting from 4th directly to 2nd, skipping 3rd, 2nd gear could not be engaged. Initially I thought I was hitting reverse because that's exactly what it sounded like. No problem as long as I go through 3rd; 3rd to 2nd is very smooth as are all downshifts if done sequentially.

I don't normally shift this way but, on this particular test drive, I was trying a lot of wierd stuff. I don't recall if this was the case before the oil change but the car is new to me and I may have thought I was hitting reverse then and chalked it up to my inexperience with the Ferrari gated shift. Now, of course, I realize 4th to reverse is impossible unless your a 500# gorilla - but, then, how would a 500# gorilla get into a Dino?

Is this phenomenon due to the synthetic oil or to something "unique" with the Dino transmission ( or, to the klutz driving it)?

Bill

 

What has happend to your oil pressure; has it changed ?
My mechanic has told me to stay well away from putting synthetic oils in the Dino.

 

I only put synthetic gear oil in the transmission, not the crankcase. So, I wouldn't anticipate a change in the oil "pressure". I've been told the same regarding synthetic oil in the crankcase but, on the other hand, have been advised that it's great for the transmission.

What does your mechanic say about synthetic gear oil in the transmission? My primary concern is the 4th to 2nd downshift "anomaly" as I described earlier. Maybe it isn't an "anomaly". Maybe it's normal for Dino - ??
Bill

 

I don't think a 4-2 shift is a great idea, given the general crankiness of 2nd gear in these cars anyway. I don't think I've ever tried one.

My mechanic absolutely refuses to put synthetics in the gearbox or the motor. Leaking was the argument in the motor, but, potential increased wear was the reason in the gearbox.

We stick to good ol' fashioned stuff in my car. I feel it's best to follow the advice of a guy who's factory trained, and has worked on these cars for quite a few years.

DM

 

I was told the same...stick to original spec oils in all areas.

 

Didn't the Dino come from the factory with a synthetic blend oil. i.e., Agip Sint xx W xx ? I know all Ferraris since the 308 did.

 

Shell Spirax HD 90 or EP 80 oil is what the workshop manual shows as spec.

 

OK! Looks like I may have goofed. I researched this further and found an Alfa/Ferrari mechanic that was pretty adamant about NOT using synthetic oil of any kind in a Dino. He suggested using Kendall 75W90 in the gear box. Would I be safe in assuming any good grade gear oil rated GL-5 or better will work OK? I'm open to suggestions if any of you feel a particular brand is better than another.
Thanks for the input!
Bill

 

Klitz, I have run synthetic (Neo) in my Dino and the results were very good. The trans. shifted smoother and the transaxel in general was quieter and I did not experiance any oil leakage. 2nd gear both up and down is very smooth with the limited slip differencial working impecably.

Gary

 

I have been running Mobile 1 synthetic in my Stratos (same as Dino 246) engine an have seen no evidence of leakage which even if it did leak a little would be OK with me as a trade-off for better protection. I think there have been a ton of threads on gearbox oil and the majority concensus was Redline 75/90ns.

 

i run synthetic in all my cars and recommend it highly to all my customers
have notice a hugh cold weather and cold trans fluid temp shifting improvement in some cars(308's ,mercedes 2.3-16,lotus espirit,etc)
just make sure of type i.e viscosity or with limited slip additive or not,gl-4,gl-5 etc etc etc
synthetic is far superior in alot of ways period
any mechanic that says different hasn't been doing his homework

 

I enjoyed Mobil 1 in my Maserati Bora's Z-F German transaxle, so years ago I briefly changed to Mobil 1 in the Dino and leaks started in the transaxle. I called the local FCA PNW division Tech rep, Carlo at Alfa of Tacoma, and he said the seals on the Dino are not made for synthetic and the stuff is so slippery that it can usually find a place to start a leak.

Carl at Blackhorse suggests the problem is probably leaks at the oil pan studs, suggesting 6mm nyloks over copper washers to hold it in. I found neoprene backed washers at Home Depot.

I currently use standard Valvoline gear oil, no problems and I change oils at the drop of a hat - or any excuse to be in the garage.

 

We run redline 75/90ns in all pre 76 Ferrari's as the ns has special additives that make it work well in the older transmissions. Redline engineers will confirm this.
The Dino's love it and so do the owners.

Paul

 

When someone tells you that the stuff is so slippery that it can get through seals, that ought to tell you something about its lubricating properties. Old seals might leak. When you have the opportunity to do an overhaul, new seals will hold much better and are usually made from compatible material. I guess you won't really know how good it can be until you try it.

Regards

Gary

 

Paul is on the money here....the "NS" means "no slip"..it does not have the limited slip additive. This is better for the synchros...as the limited slip additives can be too slippery. Try switching to the Redline 75w-90NS, and I think you will find your shifting much improved.

In my previous 328, I had some occaisional "crunching" on fast shifts...but found the Redline cured it.

 

Davehanda, so true Dave, I added limited slip additive on one change and experianced gear grinding into second. Sometimes we can cause ourselves more trouble. Stick to straight lube. I will try the red line.

Gary

 

There is some discussion now in the general tech forum of Ferrari Chat. Redline product lines are so confusing, but after some thought I decided some years back to use their MT90 in the Stratos. Shifting seemed to be smoother, so I have been quite happy. I wonder whether I should use this or the NS in the Dino? What is the difference between MT90 and 75W90NS?

 

Aloha.........as soon as I put the redine in WITHOUT THE SPECIAL ADDITIVE, my car shifted way better when cold and have had no problems at all....if I do sense anything different down the road, Ill go back to regular gear oil..still using dinosuar oil in the crankcase for now......

Gregg ....... 206 GT

 

Gregg,

Which Redline gear oil did you use?

Andy

 

There are 2 different Redline 90 wt. substitutes.......I used the one WITHOUT the limited slip additive........no need for it according to the label......

Gregg

 

There is also a train of thought for SWEPCO gear oil - my memory says it is compatible with the bronze in the synchros, at least compared to other 'oil' based lubes. Our I'm repeating an old mechanics tale; but there is some consensus around the SF bay area on this.

As far as motor oil goes, I would rather have a few drops on my floor from synthetic finding a way past seals, studs, etc and know I have the best modern lubricant that really protects the hot rotating bits.

As we know, the cam surfaces aren't the most robust in this motor. I plumbed in an Accusump to wet the cams before starting. Between Mobil 1 (all though I think all good synthetics are about equal) and the pre-oiling by the Accusump, I have not had cam wear in over 15,000 miles.

 

I am very new to Dinos - took out the Dino for its first longish drive only this Sunday - but have had a Stratos for 20 years. I'm also not an engineer and am working from memory, so what I say here may be completely off.

I understood that Redline's 75W90NS is a GL5 gear oil, while their MT90 carries a GL4 rating. I understand that GL5 is aggressive on "yellow" metals, like bronze synchronizers, and therefore shouldn't be used where GL4 (which is less aggressive) is specified. That may be why Redline classifies 75W90NS as a gear oil, while it lists MT90 separately as a transmission oil. On that basis, I opted for Redline MT90 in the Stratos and will probaby do the same for the Dino. I am sure I can use education in this area and would welcome any comments, as Redline's own classifications and descriptions show a lot of overlap and are not vey helpful.

 

What is the current wisdom on Redline gear oil? I am thinking of shifting from MT90 to 75w90NS. Would that be the right thing to do? Many thanks in advance.

Andres

 

the 75W-90NS is the way to go in the transaxle.
BTW, all the comments about not using synthetic oil in the engine on this old thread are wrong. Synthetic is far better.

 

So true! i use synthetic in the engine but tried modern oil in the newly rebuilt gearbox and it baulked terribly......went back to dinosaur oil and totally different car to drive.