Does it devalue a bora to turn it into a euro car?

Anyone?

I hate the sidemarkers and us bumpers, but would that hurt resale if I got rid of them?

 

In my opinion - yes!

The US-cars are clearly stamped with the "US".
If you buy a car on terms of originality then a car that lost its US-details are not genuine anymore.

I know that I am quite alone here on this point.

Ciao!
Walter

 

Probably not.

I agree of course with Walter that originality would be sacrified, so for those who value originality a lot such a car who be less interesting. But, for the market as a whole, a Euro-converted car would be more attractive, and likely to obtain a higher price, than an original US-spec car (especially later versions with the large bumpers) - everything else equal. This is particularly true for the sale of US-spec cars in any other market than the US.

I think however that it is wise to leave the early US-spec Boras, which have much less aesthetically challenging modifications, as they are.

Cheers,
Gabriel

 

No Bora can beat a lovely -and early!- EU-version of this type!

I brokered last week #117.466 for 85,000 Euro (=120,268.53 USD).

Ciao!
Walter
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That's beautiful walter!!

 

That car looks fantastic. Is 85K Euro the highest so far for a Bora?

Gabriel

 

not sure if this price is the highest for a Bora! But the car was wonderful, and - it had the "right" color combination!

Sold to Austria.

Ciao!
Walter

 

I must disagree with Walter as this is one case where originality does not always translate to higher value. If you take two otherwise identical US Boras, and had one converted to Euro bumpers, the one with Euro bumpers will sell for more. I am talking about a standard driver quality car and not some static museum piece with 200 original miles. Those, I would agree, need to stay original.

The same thing applies to the Merak and, even more, to the Khamsin.

Ivan

 

But I am pretty sure that a 4.7- or 4.9-Bora in -original- EU-specs would bring more cash.

Ciao!
Walter

 

Totally agree a Euro spec car will sell for more. I was answering the original question.

Ivan

 

Are there many Original European spec cars left in the USA? So much has left here and there weren't very many to begin with.

 

Perhaps this belongs in a different thread, but has anyone ever documented the conversion of the rear of a rubber bumper car? The previous owner of my car did a good job on the front, but in the rear just mounted the stainless bumper to the original mounts. I have the pieces do complete the job, but would like to see what others have done. Thanks -

 

I've never seen it documented. The frame is very different on the 75=> 77 USA Boras.
I don't know what's done to make a decent accommodation for the older style bumper as well as an exhaust system that no longer can hide behind that lower valence. You want an exhaust system that flows properly and everything should look correct from the outside. Lot's of guys remove those big oddly shaped resonator cans. But then the car is not refined but it does weighs a bit less. I don't think you have to completely modify the frame to the original European specs but it's definitely more than simple job.

I had a fiend who re-did his anthracite colored Bora in a manner that sounds like yours. I never liked how the rear looked.

I believe Classic Coach in NJ has either just done one or is in the process of doing one.

 

Thanks, I'll contact Classic Coach. I don't like the looks either. As far as I know, there are no other Boras in this area, so I don't have a point of reference. I can see that there are some hefty extensions to the chassis frame to mount the rubber bumper and I assume they have to go. If I succeed (or if I don't) I'll document the work.

 

I have converted several Boras to euro specs and the later cars 75-78 has a completely different rear and cannot be done with out spending bags of $1,000 bills.
In my 14 years of restoring and servicing over 400 GT Maseratis we never did a rear conversion of a late Bora. Nobody wanted to spend the $$$$.

To do it to factory specs, my guess would be $50,000 to $80,000 by the time you disassembled the complete rear and reconfigured the frame which would then create the need to strip and repaint the complete car. Which means pull glass doors and all hatches.
Best to buy a Euro car or an early car and convert it like emiles has done.
My 2 lira.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Thanks - now I see why the previous owner didn't finish the job. Too bad - it's sort of a goofy looking hybrid now.

 

You got it. IMHO, best to leave it as it left the factory.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Bora 1046.
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Looks great regardless... even though it would look even better in Euro-spec...

Thinking about it, US-spec Boras and Meraks are very nice cars as they are. I particularly like the early US Boras. Interestingly, they are the ones that are the easiest to convert to Euro-spec, but in my opinion, unneccessarily so...

Cheers,
Gabriel

 

Frank,

What ??? You're out of your mind with that dollar amount.
I can fully understand why no one would ever let you do one.
You been drinking a bit early today. Did someone steal your log-on here or what?

Mine is [prepped for the conversion except for the subframe modifications to accommodate the exhaust. Dropping the engine/trans subframe is not that much work.

 

It's not that kind of money. Glass and doors? WTH?

Send me some pictures of your car. What color is it?

 

It's red - with black interior, and a '77 to boot, which probably makes it the least desirable example on the planet! I don't have any rear pictures here at home, but I can take some tomorrow at the office. I do have one front picture taken by an unknown photographer at a recent car show.
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Why would you come to that conclusion? You can fix the rear appearance. Mechanically there's not that much to do remove the USA performance restrictions. That may already have been done.

Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I used to take on Porsche 928s and Nissan 300Z turbos regularly. I never had any problems. Not bad for a car originally designed in 1969.

So straighten your car's appearance out and drive it proudly.

It's only a handful of people who turn their noses up at a good running USA car that's had those bumper-imposters installed.

 

I have Bora No. 1000 a very late car and it certainly didn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to convert it back to euro front and rear. I even got the rear valance from the US distributor as new old stock even after we bent up a piece of metal that almost exactly match the NOS piece without even having any references to make it. Granted, today the bumpers cost a great deal to make or, if you are lucky, to get as NOS but my mechanic designed a carrier for the front euro bumper that bolted to the late US bumper mounts so that the euro bumpers could be remove and the US bumper put on with nothing more that some socket wrenches. It didn't cost thousands to make that carrier. For the rear bumper, he adapted some ford bumper shocks that bolted to the original mounts and used a euro rear bumper that works perfectly and looks like the factory did it. It wasn't rocket science but the result of the vision and skills of a really good mechanic who got fair value for his work and didn't cost hugh amounts of money.

As to whether any US car should be converted to visually look like a euro car, as long as any conversion is honestly stated to have occurred and can easily be reconverted to original factory specs, why shouldn't someone do it as the US conversion was done for mere marketing and governmental purposes and were never the original intent of Maserati and the late bumpers are extremely ugly. At least the Ferrari Daytona headlight change for the US was done in such a way as to minimize the change of the original design and is not particularly offensive like the Bora bumper change. The very early US Bora bumpers were much more acceptable and could stand on their own but the later post 1975 cars are really ruined by the late bumpers.

Elliot Siegel

 

Bob, Get you need to get your panties untwisted.
This is a very difficult job and if you get into painting, which you will, the price will skyrocket.
I am talking about a first class job here not a shade tree repair which can be done for much less. I use to say that a 90 point restoration was one price but that last 10 points would cost about $5,000 a point. That was 15 years ago.
Your living in the past man. you need to move out of your moms basement.
Having known Bob for over 30 years I have earned the right to harass him.
Hug to Robin.
I stand by my comments and love these strong opinionated bantering. Especially when everyone chimes in...
If anyone can do it any better any cheaper I would like to meet him.
Ciao,
FGM