Ayrton Senna- Why didn't Ferrari....

Just saw the movie Senna here in NYC. Question and apologies for my lack of knowledge in F1 circa 1990's.

When Ferrari fired Prost, why didn't Ferrari pick up Ayrton? Why was Williams the choice? Was it simply because Williams had the jump on technology or was there another issue preventing Senna from going to Ferrari?

I'm on the mobile phone and having a difficult time searching but thought I'd ask the pros here. Thank you.

All the best~

Chad

PS: Brilliant Film

 

Ferrari was not a front runner then, nor looking to be any time soon. Senna wanted for sure to be in the best car. Match made. Ferrari was never driver centric until michael came along, and couldnt build a winning car until about 1996 if memory serves.

 

Williams had the best race cars in the early 90's and Ferrari was just starting to rebuild at that time. Senna wanted to win titles, especially with Prost having one more than he does, he desparately wanted to at least equal that.

 

Senna wanted to drive that Williams so bad he supposedly offered to drive for free.
When Ferrari fired Prost, the Mclaren was still very competitive (he did win the 91 Champ). Even in 92 the car was a winner (maybe due to Senna?). The Ferrari was not.

 

IIRC, that was in 1992. After Mansell won his title in 1992, Renault wanted Prost. Mansell refused to be teammates with Prost, after their short time at Ferrari, he left the team and went to CART. At the same time, Williams wanted Senna but Prost too refused to be teammates with Senna, after their time at McLaren, blocked that move. Senna was so desparate, he offered to drive for free just so he can be with Williams to prevent Prost from winning another title. Senna finally made the move to Williams in 1994 after Prost retired.

F1 Politics and mind games was ever so brutal in that era, and no one was better at it than Prost and Senna.

 

The fellow posters already outlined the rationale.

Senna was in talks with Ferrari (maybe not the man, but the company) and was almost hired.

There is a brilliant Ferrari movie (where they also rebuilt a 156 Sharknose for the racing scenes) in which there is a dream sequence with a Ferrari F1 and Senna's helmet.

It was no secret at the time, that Senna and Ferrari wanted to get together.

Just imagine for a moment if he had picked the Ferrari in the 94 season instead of the Williams:

- He would probably still be alive today.
- He would have won some races with Ferrari, but unlikely another title.
- Schumacher would have probably still ended up at Ferrari as Senna was nearing the end of his career.
- F1 cars would not have gotten the high side driver protection and this might have cost Wendlinger his life in Monaco.

 

He wanted another world title and williams had the best shot. Not super complicated. Had he lived I don't think there's any doubt he would have ended up at Ferrari eventually. Maybe then we would have gotten to see a Senna Schumacher team.

 

Senna was in contact with Ferrari from 87 thru 93. when Mr. Ferrari died, the move to Prost was pushed by PL Ferrari, after the Prost debacle Agnelli approached Senna and Berger, with the understanding that in 94-95 Senna would be the man, as Ferrari was restructuring ... sadly it ended at Williams.

Honda would not have let Senna go in 91 - 92... Marlboro was the common thread in all the deals.

 

yeah I believe it was Williams with the active suspension or whatever it's called. I wish Ayrton was with ferrari though.

 

Maybe Senna was so good that he would have won a title in a Ferrari anyway.

 

Unlikely:

Prost didn't manage to and it took MS 5 years. By then Senna would have long retired

 

Let me at least dream about it, lol. Yeah I think you're right, I was in high school at the time and I remember Prost saying back then that the Ferraris were too heavy and I don't know if it was him or N.M. who said it drove like a tractor. I remember liking Michele Alboreto after reading a magazine where he was driving a 288GTO against a modified M.Benz, funny guy and talented, but Ferraris weren't on top of their game back then.

 

Prost nearly did.

Why spirot calls the Prost period a debacle is confusing to me? ... yes Prost p!ssed Ferrari off, but what Ferrari needed to do is listen to their drivers, and Prost had the balls to tell them their car was not perfect, and he still very nearly won the WDC with it.
Pete

 

Back when Ferrari was celebrating it's 60th anniversary, Top gear magazine had an interview with LDM. He mentioned that Senna had agreed to join Ferrari for the '95 season...

 

I don't remember well, but to who did he lost it to or do you remember in which place he finished away from the title?

 

In 1990 Prost lost out to Senna. He was very much in contention untill Senna took him off at the Japanese GP, which was a titledecider.

In 1991 it was pretty much a Mansell (Williams) vs Senna (McLaren) story. Senna was dominant in the first half of the season, but once Williams got their semi-automatic gear going and Mansell started to get comfortable in the car (early on Patrese seemed to be able to match him) Williams clearly took the upperhand. Senna´s McLaren running out of fuel at Hockenheim and Silverstone didn´t help either. In the end, Mansell lost control in (again) the first corner at Suzuka. Again a titledecider. The final race at Adelaide was cut short for 14 laps due to heavy rainfall. Half points were rewarded.

Ferrari didn´t really play a part in that season. Alesi was still trying to win the hearts of the tifosi (after being boo-ed at the for Ferrari disastrous race at Imola) and the brand new 643 (introduced at Magny Course to replace the interim model 642) was not good enough. With a slightly more balsy strategy Prost could have won at Barcelona, but it wasn´t to be. After Suzuka Prost complained that his 643 felt like driving a truck. By then, Ferrari was pretty much done with Prost (and Prost with Ferrari) and he was sacked on the spot (when all the good seats for 1992 were allready filled, so, apart from a little flirt with Ligier, Prost was headed for a sabbatical). For the final race at Adelaide he was replaced with Gianni Morbidelli.

 

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Remember he lost to Senna because Senna crashed into him deliberately on the first corner, otherwise he would have won the WDC for Ferrari.
Pete

 

I was at that race and thus did not get to see Prost drive a Ferrari ... errr!

Pete

 

When Wendlinger crashed, they still had low cockpits. Remember that it was just a few weeks after Imola.

After that crash, Sauber decided to raise the sides of their cockpit without being asked for it, while other teams only did it two years later, when it was mandatory. Respect!

 

I only referenced the 91 season as a debacle becuase Ferrari was so short sighted...Alan Prost one of the most gifted racers ever, was sacked because he told the truth about the 641 Ferrari. It was a truck, did not even come close to winning anything.

If you remember Ferrari was being run by committee, and Gianni Angelli was ill... and not really involved much. this was pre Montezemolo. Piero Lardi Ferrari bears much of the blame for this awful time. He fell back into his fathers trap of caring what the press said. Shortly thereafter he was removed - kicked up stairs and out of day to day racing involvment. ( his father had a falling out with him regarding John Barnard ) and he went to road car side, once his dad died, he was back in the running of the F-1 side. I remember seeing him in 89 and 90 at a lot of races strolling the pits. From 91 to 94 Ferrari won nothing, and rarely appeared on the podium - clearly a debacle.

 

Aha!

I learned something.

I thought Sauber had the car modified for Monaco already but apparently was wrong. Thanks.

 

I really liked the Prost/Alesi/Berger period of Ferrari F1.

Maybe not the best car but all top notch drivers....

 

Especially Giovanni. Remember his initial race in the Tyrrell ? Spectacular.....

 

Is'm translator, part 9;

Tyrrell is Benetton.
Gio is Gerhard

??

 

- Probably, we don't know for sure, not back then.
- Debatable.
- Probably.
- Who knows? I gave up trying to figure out what the rulesmakers would do and when.

That's very possible. Senna didn't drive like Prost: totally different styles, some drivers are smooth and calculating like Prost, some are more ballsy like Senna, and if Senna could throw a Ferrari around like he did a McLaren at Monaco, who knows how the car would react, it might have worked great - FOR SENNA.
How many times have we seen two drivers drive the same car in practice, one does great, the other can't do squat in the same car?

As I said above: two totally different drivers.
I like both MS and AS as drivers, but to watch MS drive Monaco in his prime is a snoozer, whereas with AS you are on the edge of your seat on every lap.