If i recall correctly, Bradan had your Ferrari January first. Sounds like they will celebrate yet another New Year on you dime. Dime = $18,000.00 IMHO Joe
oh just rub it in wont ya actually Bradan wasnt the receipient of the full $$ spent. There were parts suppliers and ups in line as well. Oh well, all will be good one day. i just keep repeating serenity now, serenity now...
Ted, just finished reading this thread from page 1 to here. You are a good sport, and your love for the car and for the driving experience you hope to someday enjoy is carrying you a long way. Bravo for your optimism. Good luck and take care!
My 86 mondial has been with another NYC area shop of good reputation since Jan 15th for a major + hoses + bushings + clutch + you name it. A few mistakes, mechanic's surgury, other issues etc since then it's now late august and after lots of promises that I'll have it back 200% perfect before summer is out, learned today that it will be post labor day before I see it again so there goes summer. Keeping it in perspective after this weekend's events in the NE, and how lucky we all are, I am trying to be patient and careful not to call out the name of the shop, when snow gets here if I haven't been able to drive it this year (other than when I drove it in the shop, fully functional on Jan 15) that's it names are being called out.
oh comrade I so feel your pain (in my best clinton imitation) i want to scream from the rooftop with what i've been through and some day i will write a book "Riding the Black Horse" but its all here already in my thread. Its a bit unreal and seemingly unfair when the only time you can enjoy your investment is so short to start and now we are here up against another winter and another chance is lost. keep your chin up, your time will come as two is not as lonely as one.
It's hard because sometimes they are forced to chase down problems that they didn't expect to encounter. In my case I had an occational fuel leak that we couldn't figure out where it was coming from. All new hoses - still had the issue. It turned out to be a cracked nipple - over a month of diag & repair - $4,000 and it's solved. The first major for a 'new to you' car is always going to be the worst as the mechanic has never seen the car and you don't know the problems with the car since you've never really driven it. I've put on almost 2,000 miles on mine so far - I know the in's, out's, and quirks. I can tell when she's running normal, or not right. That goes a long way in helping someone figure out the problems. Dropping off a car that has not been driven in months/years is never a good situation. Let's all hope for a mild winter so we can drive. Erik
Thank you M5 for the nod, its been tough keeping my lid on but i'm a half full guy so patience has become my only last straw. All i can do is shake my head and laugh.
The toughest part for me is that I've owned the car since 07 - put 4,000+ miles on her, done some prior troubleshooting and work myself and others sucessfully with the same shop in the past - so I know what I have been missing out on (and reminded by daughters and wife regularly). Worse - I specifically timed the major to try to miss as little of NE driving season as I could. Oh well life goes on. A mild winter would be great for driving, but kill my enjoyment of sking and boarding, I guess I need to find myself some snow tires and a ski rack for the Mondial!
Erik, this is not directed at you, but your comments are why, IMHO, it is exceedingly important to take your car to a mechanic with substantial and specific experience with these cars. People shouldn't be afraid to ask the tough questions, regarding experience, tooling, and general qualifications before turning over the keys to a mechanic. There are a lot of shops out there who claim to be Ferrari experts, but there are only so many real Ferrari experts to go around. There is a value in having decades of Ferrari specific experience and training. Also, be weary of people who say "use my mechanic, he is great" Before you take that reference, ask the person, "Why is he great" what did he do? Most of the time, you will find the mechanic did a simple service and was very friendly or that the owner doesn't really know much about these cars at all, so his opinion, while appreciated, doesn't have much value and it doesn't mean in the slightest that the mechanic is qualified to do what could turn out to be complicated diagnostic and restorative work. If you are going to accept references, accept them from respected Ferrari mechanics outside your region, or owners in your region who have had substantial and complicated work done to their Ferraris, and can tell you specifics about the mechanic they recommend, including time spent in the shop, work performed, costs, and operating procedures. Personally, I did all of the above. I got a few names from a well respected Ferrari expert, I asked around to the people in my circle who I knew had done real work and knew there way around a car, and then I called my personal Ferrari guru and master mechanic who lives across the country and got his thoughts (I'm leaving his name out of this so he doesn't get a flood of calls ). It may seem like overkill, but I knew I was building a relationship that would be ongoing for years and cost me tens of thousands of dollars. A little due diligence goes a long way. By doing my homework in advance I have saved thousands of dollars in services by using mechanics whose vast experience has dramatically cut down on diagnostic time and servicing costs. This has freed up money for me to do all the restorative work I want while staying within my budget. Furthermore, my car has never been out of my hands for more than a few days at a time and as you can see from my other thread, I've done an enormous amount of restorative work on my car. As I said before, there is a reason people ship their cars to Dave Helms, Rifledriver, Algar, Competizione, Possum Hollow, and others like them. Being a master Ferrari tech with decades of experience has a value. Just my .02 FWIW, I have no idea who is or works for Braden, so please don't take my comments as a shot at them.
I'll explain, no problem. I didn't pick my mechanic out of a hat - I did a lot of research prior to the decision. Before buying my first Mondial, I sent identical emails to 5 different mechanics - 3 were 'authorized', 2 were not. The email basically introduced myself - explained the situation that I was looking into the specific car I bought and asked some general questions - some of which I knew the answer to, other's that I didn't. The reason I asked those that I knew is that I could judge their honesty by the responses that I knew the answers for. The entire email would have taken 5 minutes or less to read, and maybe 5 minutes to reply to. Out of the 5 emails, I got one back in 24 hours, 2 never replied, 1 replied in a week, and the final one replied almost 3 months later. The most interesting of the bunch was the 3 months later one - authorized Ferrari dealer who explained that he was so backed up, it would be a few more weeks before he could even look at the car - at that point, I had already purchased and started the service. Since the responses weren't enough for me to make a decision, I actually went to the five places - 3 authorized, 2 unauthorized. The 3 authorized were all beautiful, massive facilities. I was given a personal tour by the shop manager, and treated very well. We discussed the service, plus the 'extras' I wanted to do. At all three locations, I was introduced to a mechanic that would be working on my car. I was told that this tech specialized in the 80's Ferrari's and generally he is the only one who works on those cars. Sure enough - most of the bays were filled with 355,360,430's. I saw 1, maybe 2 classics there - no Mondials. It was generally a TR or 308/328. Each shop explained that '80s Ferrari's don't come in often due to the high price of their hourly rate but they are all trying to lower that rate to compete with the independants. I went to the first unauthorized shop and I was horrified. Place was a mess - random cars from Lamborghini to Lotus, from Ford to Honda. It seems like they will work on anything. The guy was very nice, and gave me some great advice but I didn't have the comfort level I had with the authorized shops. I didn't see saving a few thousand dollars as a reason to see him. Funny enough, when I got my 348 and needed a new battery - the closest authorized dealer said he was too busy, so I ended up at this shop to change it. Very cheap, did the job well, and took me on the spot. I had no choice and it was a good solution. Finishing up, I went to the last unauthorized shop on my list. Walking in, I saw a variety of Ferrari's with a mix of '80's, '90's, and '00's. The shop was clean - not fancy, but business appropriate. The crew working was down to earth - nice guys. During the tour I was shown exactly what was going on to each car and the 'trouble' spots to look out for. I was impressed at the sheer number and variety of cars they were servicing. When it came down to making the ultimate decision, I took into account a variety of factors. 1. Price 2. Ability to use 'aftermarket' parts (Hill for example) 3. Communication Level 4. Comfort Level 5. Services Price was a no-brainer - the two unauthorized shops were much less for the same job. Even within the three authorized dealers, there was a wide range of prices. Ability to use 'aftermaket parts'. The three shops I spoke to refused to use anything but Ferrari parts. In fact, in the case of my clutch, they would not 'refurbish it' they would only replace it. There were certain things that I wanted - from Hill and scuderia rampante that they would not touch. I understand why, but it weighed heavily into my decision. Communication level is key. At the authorized dealers, I didn't think I would be given high priority - and judging by future communication with them for a variety a reasons, I found out I was 100% correct. Calls not being returned - emails responded to weeks late - etc. It was made clear to me from the start that the independant I chose, I would be treated as any other customer - and they proved it time and time again. Comfort Level - I don't know if I'm happy that the authorized dealer sees very few older Ferrari's. Any tech can work on a modern car with computers that tell you what's wrong, but when you are hunting down a problem, I want someone who see's these day in and day out. Services - I didn't see the above and beyond service I was expecting from the authorized centers. It just wasn't there. I did see it at the shop I picked. Now, before you say, we'll you only have experience at the shop you chose, that is not the case. Since buying my third Ferrari, I've had to use several of these dealerships for a variety of reasons. 348 - battery change at independant. Oil change at authorized (who charged me 2 hours labor on top, to fix small problem I never asked them to). Mondial - Parts changed at authorized (they wouldn't install wiper blades for me, too busy) - didn't have bulbs in stock at authorized. I think expectations are sometimes set too high, especially when looking over a 'new to me' car. I am very happy with my decision and being able to use my car everyday proves, to me at least, that I made the correct choice. I don't want to name names, etc, but I know you perfer Algar - they were not one of the shops I went to or contacted. Erik
Great post!!! You did the type of homework most don't. Just to be clear though, as I said earlier, my thread was not in anyway directed at you, nor Braden for that matter. Also, as for authorized vs. unauthorized dealer, I have no preference. My preference is strictly for the mechanics working on the car. There are many authorized dealers who I would not feel comfortable having touch my car because, as you said, their experience tends to be with newer cars and or their customer service and billing policies stink. In fact, four of the places I briefly rattled off the top of my head are not authorized dealers, but all have factory trained master Ferrari mechanics who have been working on these cars for decades. In the end, as a customer, we only have so much control, as long as we do our due diligence, the rest is out of our hands.
I understood and just wanted to let you know how I arrived at my decision - very similar to how you phrased it "important to take your car to a mechanic with substantial and specific experience with these cars." - in my opinion, that's exactly what I did. As for your suggestions - I agree completely, all have great reputations - as your post wasn't directed specifically at me, mine wasn't meant to discredit you - just explain how I arrived at my decision. If I'm not mistaken, most of your list is pretty far from NJ - I wanted my mechanic within a two hour drive, if possible. Erik
Out of curiosity, did you check out Classic Coach in Elizabeth, NJ. They are the oldest Ferrari repair shop in the country. I have heard fantastic things about them, but haven't done any legwork myself as I don't live in NJ.
Yes - phenominal shop - unreal in my opinion. I never considered them as one of my 5 - I had gotten prices years ago and it scared me away. They are really the high end market - full body restorations and such. The sort of place where you tour the facility with your mouth wide open in pure awe. Erik
Thanks for the tip on Classic Coach. My parents live in Clifton and, in addition to the Avenue A Club, I have another stop during my next visit. http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/an-automotive-wonderland-rises-in-newark/
Hey Joe, Well they had to take my car off their lift and put it in their showroom. They are still waiting for the clutch to come in
ok so after 3 weeks of waiting for the clutch TOB and Flange from Hill Engineering, it finally arrived on Tuesday and Continental Auto Sports in Hinsdale IL, installed it and perfected the whole system in 2 days. it drives completely different from when i first picked it up in NY and which then later failed completely. Its now perfect and it a real pleasure to drive. I now have a growing problem that i need help with. During my Major, i had the fuse box completely rebuilt and as an added touch i purchased the GCK from Dave Helms at SRI. Great stuff there. But slowly my electrical's are melting down and becoming inoperable 1 by 1. Today when i picked up my car from CAS, while they were checking my oil in the parking lot (i have an oil leak), the car started to smoke out of the left hand side of my trunk.. it smelled like plastic burning and became intense. We shut it down immediatly and They pulled my car back into the shop, removed the rear wheel and after a few minutes traced the melt down. Turns out the solenoid for my engine hatch overheated and melted the plastic parts around it. The strange thing is, i had this very solenoid replaced and the switch during the major. Whats causing this? After disconnecting the solenoid and buttoning up everything again, i drove off and within minutes my 5/8 slow down light illuminated and stayed on for 3 minutes. The car was cold and its 50 degrees out. It came on one more time for a sec and then never came on again. i suspect electrical. When it started to get dark, i flipped my lights on and nothing! They are illuminated but won't flip up?!? Also, my fans keep running, never once shutting off even though, its 50 degrees out. Any ideas of this systematic shut down of my electrical switches? thank you in advance. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Since the car is going back to Bradan to fix the cam seals, perhaps they should re-evaluate the fuse box they installed? Just sayin' Joe
Here is the deal with Dave's Gold Connector kit. It is an exceptional piece of engineering, but it requires the installer to be careful and deliberate in the installation. If the installer did not take his time to perform the very long and very monotonous work of doing it properly, its not going to work. In fact, I imagine you will make things a whole lot worse. So now you have a car that has developed all sorts of electrical problems that SEEM to center around the significant electrical work done by Braden, just as you had clutch problems that centered around the work, or lack thereof, that was done at Braden. This I find amusing by the way. If I understand your other thread correctly, when you got back in your car after getting it from a shop with factory authorized techs you noticed an immediate difference between how it felt when you got it back from Braden. You noticed the immediate difference between how it felt and how it was SUPPOSED TO FEEL. Isn't it curious to you that Braden didn't know the difference despite a admitted extensive test drive.... This is the difference between good intentions and experience/expertise. Braden may be as nice as pie, they may make the whole experience feel warm and fuzzy...in the end though, you pay your mechanic for their expertise and for results. A nice smile won't get your car off the side of the road. I hope I am wrong about Braden, but all the mounting circumstantial evidence thus far points to the contrary...and LOUDLY.
Joe, your first draft was good too. I agree and i've tried very hard to be understanding but i have to say, i've had enough of the problems. Throwing money at it doesn't seem to work. When i was 25 i fell deeply for a very sexy and seductive woman who suffered from, unbeknownst to me, Schizophrenia/biporal disorder. At the time i was clueless so i poured a lot of time and whole lot money into that relationship over a 5 year span, i eventually cut free and never looked back. As history repeats itself, I will continue to spend time with this sexy and beautiful piece of work, and probably a lot more money, but i may need to take her to a new therapist to have a better outcome than the last experience. I will try to reach a mutually agreeable conclusion before i make another move.
Ted, the only "mutually agreeable conclusion" that counts here, is one that you & your car, can be satisfied with. So many of us here, have been witness to your ongoing struggles - - and I would be willing to bet that by this point in time, 90% of us are saying..........Ted - yes, you have incredible patience - and you're more than willing to let folks fix their "stuff". No names on location but, ENOUGH ALREADY!!! Wishing you all the best, Hank
Cooler heads prevailed. I am trying my level best to be diplomatic, for fear of derailing this thread, but you are not making it easy for me! At some point enough is enough. I don't want to hear the nonsense that...these are old cars, blah, blah, blah. Give me a break. I don't think the OJ jury would have swallowed this much! It may be a remarkable coincidence to some that the clutch failed after they failed to replace the throwout bearing or that you have had electrical problems galore after they installed the gold connector kit and replaced the fuse box, they may even want to minimize your flaming trunk with the failed solenoid that they replaced. Everyone can continue coming up with excuses, but at what point do you start questioning the workmanship? Are we now so afraid to call out a sponsor that we need a fricken video before we are willing to open our mouths. These guys are not Ferrari mechanics anymore than my local Exxon which is currently working on a beater Mondial are Ferrari mechanics. If I am wrong, they would have corrected me by now, but they freely acknowledge they don't have any factory trained mechanics in their shop. They may have a great webpage and do killer tuner mods and paintwork, but boy does it look like they got over their heads on this one...with your time, money and safety. You can continue making excuses for them and turning the other cheek. I have a harder time with it..., but I am trying real hard to keep it to myself.
