Should F1 stay as it is or move with the times

Steve great question. I think your fact above settles it. The door is open to change with KERS in high performance vehicles for customers.
That being said there, I think, will always be a market for high performance "old school" petrol only racing. No matter the current motors will continue to evolve and become more efficient. F1 might not be quick to adapt but it will happen.
If F1 stayed with petrol and KERS id be happy no matter. Let LeMans type racing have the electrics! Reminds me of the Red Barchetta song by Rush We arent out of oil just yet

 

Who's to say electric cars are the future? To-date, they've been about as successful as automatic seatbelts. . . pushed on us but nobody's buying.

 

I guess change is inevitable, but one of the main attractions of F1 is the noise and the smells, the atmosphere. I dont see that electric racing, even with enormous Bose speakers making a racket and smell-o-vision screens, will deliver the same excitement.

That said, if F1 has to change, it will be because we all ran out of oil and no-one has a petrol car - sad days, hope Im not here to see it to be honest

 

What he said

 

I'm with Craig here. I suspect hydrogen (generated from electrolysis from power via nuclear plants) will be more likely than electric cars in the long-run. The battery technology just isn't a goer.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Call me "old fashioned", but I would like to see regular manual gearboxes return. More driver interaction, means better racing. While they are at it, bring the V12's back...

 

+1

 

In the near future I believe you will see visible changes in the name of safety to the exterior of F1 cars along with technical/environmental changes underneath the exterior like KERS, but I do not see the petroleum power disappearing for a long long time.

Unlikely V12s will return, but V6 will be the future. Or some radical inline?

 

+1 F1 is gonna be gas powered for many, many, years yet.

Well, we know they're gonna be using V6 turbos from 2013 for, IIRC, at least the ensuing 6 seasons. (?)

The FIA has pitched "Formula E" as it's electric car series, also starting in 2013. But nothing to do with F1 thankfully!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Pretty neat! Racing as a spectator sport is most exciting when it stimulates all of the senses. As an engineering exercise, this aspect is irrelevant. It is cool that Toyota was able to do this, but that is separate from racing. What is interesting in this clip was being able to hear the tires working. Also interesting is the weight of the car was over 1 ton due to the motors and batteries. The only way for electric to overcome it's shortcomings is to extend battery life, decrease charging times and decrease weight. It might be a short term bridge technology until something better is developed (I agree that hydrogen has great possibilities), but without major steps forward, electric cars are urban cars at best.

As far as F1, it will need to figure out if it is a spectator sport or an crucible for automotive technological development. Manufacturers will want to focus on technology, but we know that they come and go at their own whim. Keeping spectators interested will need to continue to stimulate the senses.

 

With respect, not *that* interesting!..... I remember the first time I saw the Audi diesels - Listening to tire & wind noise was unusual for a few laps, then got boring, fast IMO - Those things sucked as far as "drama" goes..... No diesels!....

Or, in the case of Formula E, run for about 15 minutes at "F3 type speeds" according to the FIA's wish list..... As someone noted in the thread, then an 8 hour pitstop.....

+1 IMO, and there's many that disagree (!), they're doing a pretty good job right now. And there's promoters queueing up to host, so all in all even without the big manufacturers F1 is doing OK.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1

You ever been to a TDI or Scirroco Cup race? Some great wheel to wheel action, but so difficult to watch because you can't hear anything but tires.

 

From a spectators standpoint, you are correct. From a drivers standpoint, I wonder if greater awareness of the tire noise can may you a smoother driver.

Aural input is just one of those senses that needs to stimulated in order to make racing exciting. As the Audi guys have noted, noise is just wasted energy and there is the rub. If you are striving for efficiency from a technology standpoint the noise is irrelevant. From a promotors and spectators standpoint it is important.

 

Not here in the States they're not!

Gas remains (to me as a Brit ) at absurdly low prices here (~$1/liter) - There simply isn't the demand for econo-boxes and/or diesels (which is comparatively expensive btw). The PC crowd are buying the Prius, but beyond that, SUV's still rule!.......

Having said that, the V6's are going to be more "efficient" than the current motors, and they are talking about restricting fuel flow rates, which will make them yet more efficient and should be the placation offered to the tree huggers.

I hear you, but is it really "relevant" or a "testing ground" though? OK, everyone's now doing "F1 style" 'boxes and "seamless shifting", but overall it's the pinnacle of the sport that bears about as much relevance to Cake Boys Smart Car as a sailing ship......

Manufacturers come & go as noted, but how much technology from, eg, the Toyota F1 effort made into your mums Prius?...... They (the big guns) tend to come in when theey're doing well and someone's ego needs stroking IMO. F1 will be just fine without 'em.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I'm no race car driver, but I'm gonna say "nah!" - You feel the car thru your hands and butt and I honestly don't think hearing the tires is significant (?)

+1

But I'll take my racing with lots of noise, thankyou very much!

Cheers,
Ian

 

I think F-1 is too much a spec series. There needs to be a motivation for innovation and right now there is NONE.

The rule makers are not innovators, they are trying to contain cost, and maximize a show. there needs to be a much more open rule book, with high safety aspect.

Things like the Red Bull Play station x-1 or stuff like that is innovation. today we need to use the computer power we have, tied in with pushing the limit technology. that will make F-1 competitive, and expensive. in the 70's & 80's F-1 was a test bed for things like:
aerodynamics,
Electronics
Turbo
Metals - Engine metalurgy etc...
Braking technology
Carbon Composite
Tire technology
car safety - crushable structures etc..

think about it we went from 8-10K RPM in the early 70's to well over 14K in the early 90's
crude mechanical injection to computerized injection that is in almost every new car on the planet. a lot was learned in F-1 / racing and transferred to road cars. if you open up the rules you will get the big guys back. Honda, Toyota, Ford, BMW, Audi/VW etc... that is where the competion starts.

There was the day in F-1 you had 16 cyl, 12 cyl, 8 cyl, 6 & 4 Cyl, turbo, naturally aspro, turbine, 4 wd moveable aero, high mounted wings, super fuel, all kinds of stuff - fan car brabham, ground effect lotus.... a lot was banned becuause of safety, but with todays technology and skill, I think a lot of this can be made safe, and there is potential to absorb the lessons into day to day cars. What if you had a 1 l 16 cyl engine? or wankle engine, or turbo fan engine? what if you let the fuel companies develope super fuels like they did in the early 90's? where would we be today? full synthetic fuel?
with ceramic technology combined with nano tech, the possibilites are limitless for new engine development... but there has to be a reward ... F-1 used to be the place to go.

 

Right on!


Those that want the return of V12's a manual gearbox really want vintage racing.

For me the golden years of F1 were the 70's. Those days are gone and they aren't coming back. For F1 to be relevant it has to be cutting-edge like it always has been. I just don't like it myself.

When I was at the 2006 F1 race at Indy I walked up to the Ferrari garage and there was Schumacher's car up on stands with no wheels on, it's engine going through a warm-up cycle. Varying rpm, etc. There was no one in the car and not one person standing next to it. It was a bizarre sight.
I walked behind the partitions and there were the engineers controlling the car from a computer.

At the Canadian race I went into and behind the McLaren garages to see all the equipment and engineers. It looked like a NASA command center.

Incredible technology, but too far removed from the race driver/designer/mechanics world of years ago for my liking.

 

The next step for F1 has to be to cut more costs:

1) Virtual racing using video games and virtual racers and virtual pit crews: This will be extremely environmentally friendly. Their will be no production, no waste and no rubber from tires being used. Bernie can just sit and make sure a British and German driver win every few years.

2) In the interest of being fair, all equipment should be standard and supplied by impartial British suppliers. standard electric motors provided by a British supplier. Standard ECUs supplied by a British supplier. Standard chassis supplied by a British supplier. Furthermore, no one else should be allowed to use that standard equipment because it will all be a virtual simulated video game. The standard equipment is just to make sure that the British suppliers continue to make money.

... moving forward with the times. Super!

 

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