308 QV wheels just painted and.....finish correct?

I just had the (magnesium) wheels on my '83 QV refinished with the correct Ferrari color (PPG 36520 or FER101/C Argento Nurburgring). The color looks right but the finish appears more "matte" (both to the touch and "flat" in appearance) than I expected. I did not have the shop spray a clear coat on the wheels - most F-chatters recommended not using a clear coat. The shop owner said a coat of clear would give it the sheen I kinda expected.

Is the matte finish correct for this year? I know a number of you have used a clear coat. What do you experts say about what is original? Or is the matte finish somehow a problem with the application?

Thanks guys for any input you might have.

 

Original wheel aren't clear coated. Can't really comment on how accurate your refinish is or isn't without pictures.

 

Cant' speak with accuracy with respect to whether they are clear coated or not but the wheels on my 84QV are original and in near perfect condition. They definitely have a semi gloss smooth finish. Whether this was acheived with a top coat of clear or semigloss paint of whatever medium was used in 1984, perhaps lacquer, is hard to conclude. Definitely not matte.

 

I recently made 6 sample "paint chips" of Argento Nurburgring and other silver variations.

I took a piece of 26 gauge stainless steel, and applied two coats of self etching gray primer. Then I cut it into a dozen 2" square pieces.

I bought PPG 36520 Argento Nurburgring Met single stage but with a hardener added. I also picked up Eastwood Detail Silver and Argent Silver. And Duplicolor DUPWP101 and BSU1345. And Krylon High Heat Aluminum Silver.

As far as the PPG, I asked for Glasurit FER101/C Argento Nurburgring, which mapped to PPG #36520, they are supposedly identical.

I painted each 2" square "chip" with two coats of each of these paints.

Now you may ask "Why did I do this"? Well, what else does a Ferrari lover do in their spare time...? That's rhetorical.

I need new tires, and figured why not "freshen up" the wheels. They aren't damaged, I don't have any curb rash or bends or anything. But I figured 27 years of brake dust, heat, sand/dirt/etc, maybe I'll give them a spray to freshen them up.

Once the "chips" dried for a couple of days, I checked each one against my spare wheel, figuring that was the best control sample wheel I had out of the five. None of these 6 paints match my stock '84 308 QV wheels, which are factory original wheels that have never been painted.

The PPG 36520 Argento Nurburgring Met, Duplicolor DUPWP101 and BSU1345 have metal flakes in the paint. The stock wheels do not, they are smooth.

The Krylon was a shot, I actually had it on my shelf already from some other project so I figured why not. It was too bright silver-ee.

The Eastwood Detail Silver and Argent Silver had the closest finish - a semi gloss finish without any metal particles. The Argent Silver was too silver-ee. The Detail Silver was the closest to the stock color, but the Detail Silver has a very slight hue of brown added, whereas the stock rims contain a blue hue.

The PPG 36520 definitely had the most resilient coating. With the added hardener, the paint dried to a glossy "shell". It's definitely tough, far superior of a coating to the others, and would be perfect for a wheel given the environment that the wheel operates in. If I move forward with the project, I will use this as I think it will give the wheels a more modern look, while keeping their classic design. Also, I think as long as the set of wheels match each other, and aren't painted something silly like yellow or orange, there's no issue going a shade lighter or darker in the silver color spectrum.

I'd be more than happy to continue this research and report back here if anyone thinks they know of a paint brand/code that matches the stock wheels. But I will say with certainty that the PPG 36520 (or any of the other paints I tried) is not a direct match to our wheels, at least not to my factory original US Spec 84 QV wheels.

I tried taking photos but the shades of each paint chip do not stand out against the wheel. If you're local to me and want to come see for yourself let me know.

 

PhilB,

I'm really impressed that you went to the trouble of comparing silver color swatches to determine the best match for your wheels. Despite the recommendations of many that the PPG 36520 is an exact match to the original, my experience is similar to yours - there are more metallic flakes in this PPG paint rather than a finer grain and the color also does not match my spare which is a "warmer" silver.

You mentioned that the PPG paint had a hardener added to it. What was this for besides presumably making it more durable? Does it change the color or the sheen of the finish?

Thanks.

 

The sheen of the PPG 36520 with hardener is a gloss finish, not OEM at all. The silver is more brighter, the "speckles" (metallic particle content) are apparent, not in a bad way, just different than stock.

I've showed a number of people the paint chips, and all had the same reaction to the PPG 36520 - it's a more modern look with a more durable finish.

I got the PPG from Tower Paint. (http://www.towerpaint.com/) They recommended the hardener when I mentioned I was using it for the wheels. Once you activate the hardener in the can, you need to use it otherwise you end up with a solid block of paint in the can in like 5 hours.

My friend owns a Pantera and has similar stock silver color wheels to ours. He thought the finish of PPG 36520 was superior and is considering doing the same. His wheels use paint code Ditzler #DX8555 or PPG #3822c. It's a bright silver poly that supposedly has the correct metallic content to our stock wheels. This is also supposedly a perfect match to the Campagnolo wheels on the Ferrari 365gt. So he ordered a can to make his own paint chip. I can report back here in about two weeks how close (or not) it matches our 308 wheels.

I'm not sure if Grigio Ortello - PPG #32780 - is a match. Not sure if anyone here has tried. It was also a Campagnolo color used in the early 70's on Ferrari wheels. It may also have been used on some Lambo's around the same time.

I'm thinking that there is a possibility that different shades of silver had been used by the three different manufacturer's of our wheels. Which could explain why PPG #36520 may work for some of us, but not others.

A can of PPG from Tower is about $40 with shipping. It's an expensive test. I don't mind trying a couple more if I believe that there is some evidence some other paint code is a close match to ours. Right now, after we examine my friend's PPG #3822c test, I'm really not sure what else to try, and I need tires, and the warm weather is approaching, so time is running short.

I spoke to the two dealers near me, both said they could take care of painting the wheels and that the result would be a match, but neither would give up the paint code they would use. I won't go this route unless I know specifically what paint code they will apply. I won't necessarily mind the different silver shade, but I don't want to be told they are going to match my factory wheel color when I know if they use PPG 36520 it won't be a match.

Maybe one of our people in the business (Dave Helms, Rifledriver, Wade, Fastradio) has some advice to depart, it would be appreciated.

 

The problem I encountered when re-doing my stock 16 inchers was the correct primer. If you dont use zinc chromate as a primer the actual paint wont adhere to the wheel and will blister.

 

If the wheels are stripped of their original finish then the Dow 17 anodizing process is required followed by zinc chromate primer, then paint. I'm not a professional painter, but if the wheels aren't stripped back to bare metal, I don't see the need specifically for zinc chromate primer.

If the wheels are media blasted down to bare metal, or heated/baked to remove surface contaminants prior to painting or powder coating, you will need to strip the wheels again, then Dow 17, then zinc chromate primer in order to get the paint to adhere and not bubble off (due to off gassing) within 3 months or so.

A close friend lived through 2 years of this, and spent thousands, shipping his stock wheels all over the country to try to recover from what initially seemed like a simple powder coating job. A few of the places he dealt with are mentioned positively on this board time and again and they couldn't get it right. It wasn't until he spoke with a metallurgist who told him about the need to anodize the wheels due to their magnesium content. He then had the wheels media blasted down to bare metal for like the 3rd or 4th time, then Dow 17, and then he was able to prime and paint. It's been about two years now since completed and there is no flaking or bubbling.

 

These were done with F101C and clear coated matte the original wheels were not glossy.

I am sure they are fine.
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When I got my 308 QV wheels back after being painted with the correct Ferrari color (PPG 36520 or FER101/C), the finish left me less than enthused. I didn't expect a matte finish although one of the previous F-chatters (PhilB) had some "hardener" added to the same paint which resulted in a more semi-gloss finish on some samples he made. I had my shop add a clear coat and it looks much better to my eye. I know it may not be original but it looks sharp, will probably be easier to clean and may be more durable. Check out the photos: the first two are before and the last two are after the clear coat.

Thanks to all the guys who offered their advice especially PhilB!
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Are 328 wheels the same colour?

 

My wheels are original finish, VG condition, but paint is beginning to flake off in a few places.

Last weekend I did a thorough cleanup and they're definitely more to the matte side.

I'll get a pic today and post it for comparison.

 

Nice, they look brand new.

What I've learned recently is that in the code FER101/C, the "C" part means "Course" as in "course grain" - referring to the metallic particle content of the paint.

The photo of your finished wheels, and the look/finish of my stock wheels (and everyone else's stock wheels), is not course grain. You can hardly notice the metal particle content.

That was the issue with the sample of PPG 36520 I acquired.

I asked Tower Paint to look into making me PPG 36520 without the course particle content. Once I hear back, I will advise.

Also, my buddy owns a Pantera and recently made a sample of PPG3822c - which corresponds to Ditzler DX8555, which was used on factory Pantera wheels from the early 70's. This was not a match to our 308 factory wheel color, it was a brighter silver color. However the particle content was correct. And if covered with a satin clear coat, the sheen would be correct also. I mention this as I think it would work if you did all 4, or 5 of your wheels.

 

since wheels are shipped to Ferrari painted direct from speedline italy surely you would want to paint them Speedline silver which is PPG 226.650

Chris

 

Thanks for that code, Chris!

Sppedline should have been trying to match the earlier Campagnolo and Cromodora finishes.

Griots Garage offers a kit based upon the standard Mercedes/BMW silver add that to the "possibilities"...

The original semi gloss finish pictured above looked pretty close to me, the clear coat adds shine but is not "correct"...but that said, it may well ease the cleaning of the rim and last better long term against dogs, and such dangers as that....

 

Thanks Chris.

Since joining four years ago you posted twice. Both posts made today, and about this paint color. So what gives? Do you work for Speedline or PPG?

Just curious.

 

Can you take the spare wheel to an automotive paint supplier, PPG, Dupont, etc.

They have a computer Gun/scanner that will scan the paint on your spare wheel and provide a paint match, color code formula.

 

er, no just had to repaint my F355 wheels and wanted them the correct colour or original colour this time so I called Speedline, but my paint guy just called me and said PPG can't fine the code or something so need to check with Speedline/PPG

 

+1 !!
It seems this can't be stated enough! If the DOW 17 (greenish coating) is stripped off, the game changes radically.

 

The gloss level of a single stage auto paint can be controlled by adding Fattener. The RM paint technical manual states the gloss level can be reduced by adding HS05 Flattner; 15 to 20% for semi-gloss, 35 to 40% for satin gloss, 55 to 60% for flat. LIMCO, RM and Glasurit are all BASF paints. If you use PPG paints, I would assume PPG has a flattner too.

 

Phil,

Can you share where your friend got them prepped and painted correctly?

Rob

 

Yes, would you share please? Also, Rob, can you PM me when you get a few minutes to discuss wheels?
Thanks,
MB

 

I didn't realize the correct wheel color FER101C is the same exact body paint code as the silver 308's

 

Robert,

I'm sorry, I didn't see your question when you originally posted it. A recent PM sent me back to this thread.

My friend had his Pantera wheels media blasted down to the bare magnesium locally, and then sent to this place in Connecticut for the Dow 7 anodizing process:

http://www.ptiindustries.com/

They cost about $250 for the 4 wheels for this process.

This was after he had the wheels powder coated multiple times, and always within a couple months the powder started bubbling off. Then he had them stripped again and painted, and the same thing happened with the bubbling.

So he had them stripped once more, and then the Dow 7, and then primed and painted. It's been three years and everything has been stable.

There is a Dow 17 process also, which leaves a protective layer on the wheels. This layer is thick enough to hide any details that might be cast into the wheels, which is why he went with the Dow 7.

Thanks.

 

Thanks Phil - great info here. Will let you guys know how it goes.
MB