I need a head job | FerrariChat

I need a head job

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by chairpilot, Sep 11, 2011.

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  1. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2007
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    Well, actually my 308 does. My leak down test shows one cylinder (driver's side front back) at 80% through the exhaust valve(s), the rest are all about 20%. The car is using 1 qt every 300 miles. I'm doing a search on Fchat for the overall procedure for pulling the heads and getting them rebuild. I plan to do all the grunt work - R&R, cam timing, etc. and would send the heads out locally for the heavy duty stuff (check valves, new guides & seals and?). But I would still like to read up on as much as possible before pulling the engine, which I plan to do to make things easier overall.
    I'd appreciate any help pointing me to threads on the subject. Mainly the re-installation of the heads, distributors, shimming and cam timing procedures.
    Also, who in Los Angeles is good to send the heads out to and what should they do vs. me?
    As always - thanks,
    Bob R.
     
  2. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    You might investigate the bores/pistons, a known weakness and oil usage problem with that year.
     
  3. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Bruce Bogart
    I use TG's Performance Engine Shop. Talk to Tony, the owner, 310 679-3604. He's done 3 sets for me so far and they come back assembled and with valves adjusted. No ridiculous Ferrari prices either-good head work is good head work. Do all you can yourself! I'll bet you could even get a stooge or two to help if need be!
     
  4. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Maybe. FYI - My compression readings and leak downs were as follows:

    Front bank (driver to passenger side)

    140/80% - 180/17% - 165/22% - 175/18%

    Rear bank

    180/20% - 180/19% - 174/25% - 165/22%

    BTW - what is the exact cylinder # of each location? Both banks are labeled 1-4 & 4-1 (???)
     
  5. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Thanks Bruce. So what you are telling me is I should just hand him the heads with the cams still installed and he'll return them shimmed and ready to drop on the block?

    What's a ballpark cost range and turn around time assuming 1-2 valves are also replaced???
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #6 Steve Magnusson, Sep 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Your (really) "bad" cylinder is #5 (if I'm translating your text correctly). This figure (from your OM ;)) shows the 1-to-8 308 cylinder numbering (and the 1-to-4 numbering for each bank), and describes the general (but not always -- for example, 246) F rule (top view of engine, the long snout on the crankshaft is the timing belt/chain end):
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Got it Steve, Thanks!

    Question to you all: Based upon the data here, the 1 qt/300 mile oil consumption rate, the fact the engine may have 200K+ miles on it with no history of a major AND that (to me) it starts every time and runs great, would you dive into it for either a head job or (gulp) a bottom end rebuild now or just keep driving it.....and say, every 6 months, take compression and leak down readings to compare with the current ones and see if the numbers get worse before considering anything? If you say wait, then at what PSI or % leak down should I say enough!
     
  8. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    I cannot imagine, that it runs great with that bad cylinder. At least it might be 'underperforming'.
    But seriously; congratulations on 200K+ miles !
    And I would opt for a bottom end rebuild.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I thought anything above ~20% leakage was enough justification for a rebuild ;) With that many miles (or even if it's only 100K), and those leakdown numbers, putting fresh heads on a tired bottom end seems a little crazy to me. Have you ever been behind your car while someone else drives? Might be smoking more than you think...
     
  10. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    Yes, I've been told that recently. But, I could see it from the driver's seat too. Came mainly from oil dripping on the exhaust manifold which I then found was due to loose manifold bolts (stud nuts). I cleaned up and tightened the assembly and ran it again last weekend - no more dripping or visible smoke from the driver's seat but I'll have a friend follow me on the next test run for the secondary smoking assessment.
     
  11. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Yes, that's right. Much easier to do it that way than to try to reshim after valves are ground. He'll tip them after grinding them so no big shim expense. Pretty sure you can call him and find out price range. He doesn't get bent if you provide your own parts.
     
  12. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    #12 chairpilot, Sep 12, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
    Thanks Bruce. Speaking of parts, what's a good source for the guides and seals? Should I assume they all will need replacing or would they check and determine that and just change what's necessary?
    Question, my QV probably has the nikasil/aluminum liners correct? If so, and they need to be replace/repaired, do I go with iron liners?
    Bob
     
  13. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
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    You're sure this is for the 308? :D:D:D
     
  14. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Certainly replace the seals and have them check the guides for wear and replacement if needed. Check with Daniel at Ricambi and at GT Car Parts in Phoenix 623 780-2200. I think the 308 experts on this board can give you better guidance with liners.
     
  15. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    You're probably right. It will likely pump oil and smoke like a mutha with a nice new top end.
     
  16. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Get them done locally. I would have the heads checked out before going into the bottom end. If your car has had reasonable maintenance, there's no reason to believe cylinder problems, especially if the valve(s) in the suspect cylinder show leakage. Once you have the heads off, turn out the lights and put a flashlight into the ports. Look in the combustion chamber and see if you see any light. That's the flashlight test. Any or more light coming thru one or all of those valves? Problem isolated. Cost most likely under $1000. Fix what ain't broke? Up to you.
     
  17. chairpilot

    chairpilot Formula 3

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    What about the guides? I'm burning oil like Kuwait during the Desert Storm conflict!
     
  18. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Wow nice sentence!! Not what you want to write about your own car, but still a nice mental picture!!

    As for this.....I need a head job....


    Don't we all!!???
     

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