MS vs Hamilton in Monza *** SPOILER***

MS didn't get a drive through penalty for blocking Lewis at Monza, but that's not because the jury thought it was not necessary, but because they botched it:

http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/automobil/kurioses-missgeschick-verhindert-schumacher-strafe-4010468.html

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/173030/1/daly_stewards_should_have_penalised_schumacher.html

Derek Daly was busy watching the Massa/Trulli incident in replay while the MS-Hamilton duel was going on. That's how they missed it.

In hindsight Daly says that MS should have been given a drive through penalty.

 

So that means Alonso should have also gotten a drive through for pushing Vettel off in the dirt. I am sure there were many other incidents in the race that should have had penalties. But at the end of the day if the stewards didn't see it, then its not a penality.

 

It looked like good, clean racing to me.

 

IMO there have been some questionable calls all season.

MS's rather dubious/dodgy moves at Monza, being another one of them.

 

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7176012/-Schu-Should-ve-Been-Penalised-

"He was warned repeatedly, and this style of driving is not what you want the future generation of drivers to perfect"

So future f1 drivers will be driving in a series call formula wussy with huge rear view mirror to let anyone by if they are faster. What have happened to f1.....

 

Once again, "can't please all the people all the time".......

Some will say "it was good clean racing, and blocking has always been a part of it." - Michael is the master of reclaiming his line, not blocking etc..... [The old boy can still do it ]

Others will claim it's "dangerous, stupid and the perpetrators should be expelled."

Seems to me which side you fall is determined by the protagonists - To some, if it's Michael, it's OK where Lewis should be hung-drawn-&-quartered for the same behavior. To others, Lewis is the best precisely because he pushes the limits of what's legal.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I think it was a little bit of both. Both arguements hold water. Some will say he made 1 defensive move and then simply moved back to the racing line while others call that two defensive moves. Both are solid. Ultimately it was up to the stewards and their decision was to tell Brawn to tell Michael to take it easy out there. David Coulthard and teh BBC guys put it best in saying Michael was dancing right on the edge of good and bad. That's how this will go down. Another controvery with several opinions and no solid right or wrong answer.

 

It certainly seems that's what happened. However, that's at odds with Andreas' OP - It seems Daly is now claiming they would have penalized him had they seen it......

Whatever, it's now water under the bridge (or wee-wee down the toilet as my buddy says )

Cheers,
Ian

 

Maybe they heard it was happening to Lewis and some of the stewards had a blind eye

 

I would say MS got away with one double blocking move, and he was dancing on the border of whatevers legal for the time Hamilton was up his rear.

Ross Brawn called his man twice and put him straight, and thats it, hopefully other drivers will or can get that chance, in the future.

If the positions had been reversed....hells bells second thoughts, I don't want to even think about that.

Hamilton's race was stuffed, but he kept tight lipped about it.

 

Oh man don't go there either..

 

I think blocking is frowned upon, because of the increased risk of a cars getting airborne.

 

Good hard racing.

 

And I have to say Mr Hamilton impressed by not spouting off to the press as he has been known to do in the past.

Personally, I feel it was good racing and right on the edge of the rules.

 

Remember Mansell v Senna in Monaco. I just thought it was great, exciting racing. Hamilton was geared too short, and he suffered for that. What is wrong with that.

 

That's two races in a row Hamilton has been mature about things. Baby steps? I'll say like I said after Spa, I think this might be the turning point for Lewis and possibly another/more WDCs

 

Was good, hard racing. Wish F1 had more of it at this point...

 

It was definitely against the rules. MS clearly made more than one blocking move on more than one occasion.

But the only reason it was such a problem is that the Mercedes was faster in a line, and the McLaren was quite a bit faster in the turns - so it turned into a cat-and-mouse game. Lewis not only needed to get by, he needed to do it a certain point of the track to put enough gap on Schumi so he wouldn't get re-passed as soon as the next straight came.

However, while it was clearly a violation of the rules, it was handled appropriately. The team got on the radio and told MS to knock it off. He knocked it off and all was well.

Giving him a drive through for that would have been utterly ridiculous.

 

Not true. According to Daily it was clearly a violation of the rules.

MS simply got lucky but that doesn't mean he didn't violate the rules.

You are allowed one defending move. Not two, simple as that. There is no such thing as "going back to your racing line". If you move either direction, that's the location from where you then go for the turn.

Had he been given the proper drive through penalty, Massa would have taken his position.

 

are you sure? I seem to recall Brundle and Coulthard saying (during the race) it could be argued that's what he was doing....and that it was right on the edge of what's acceptable.

 

I'm pretty sure, but that's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what the former F1 racing driver thinks who is acting as the consultant to the stewards. And Daly is very clear on this.

This btw is the moment they have most issue with: When MS was 'pushing' Lewis onto the grass.

PS: The whole thing is fairly meaningless at this point since it is after the fact. I just wanted to have Daly on record with his opinion as some folks thought that what MS did was perfectly legal. It wasn't.

PPS: There are/were rules I don't like either. The banned team order rules for instance (thankfully gone by now). I also don't like this rule as doing more than one defensive move makes for entertaining racing. However (unlike the team order rules) this one really could lead to disaster (Zandvoort 1982) and because of that it should be adhered to.
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Great photo!

 

So would you think what Alonso did Vettel was illegal? I see no difference between what Schumacher did to Hamilton and Alonso did to Vettel. If anything I think Alonso's move was out of line.

 

Closing the door on an opponent with one defensive move is legal.

I don't remember what went on in the Vettel/Alonso fight. If Alonso only changed his line once and thereby forcing Vettel onto the grass, then it was perfecly fine. If he changed his line twice, then he too did an illegal and dangerous move and was lucky he didn't get caught.

What makes the double defensive move so dangerous is that the following driver doesn't expect it: They know, that one move is ok and when they see a chance to pass on the other side, they take it. When a driver then blocks that one too, then we're milimeters away from cars getting airborne.

Just "pushing" a driver wide in a corner onto the grass is ok (dangerous though). If it happens as the second defensive move, then it is not.

 

I was referring to the picture you posted of MS pushing Hamilton onto to grass. From your posts, you say this was the incident(Your picture) that the stewards were looking closley at. Based on this photo I dont see the difference between what MS vs Hamilton and Alonso vs. Vettel. However, I do agree that there was one time I did see MS block Hamilton.