The official replica/re-creation thread

Your new chassis cannot be registered, so you need at least the title from an existing old car. On the other the wannabe Ferrari built upon Alfa mechanicals (Dino sports racer replicas mostly) are among the most stupid fakes in existence, so I would say that would never appeal to people who want a real Ferrari and fool themselves thinking that replica built upon a real chassisnumber and a Ferrari engine really is a real Ferrari.

The destruction of real cars on the other hand is only part of the problem. I think fakes eat up the uniqueness and charisma of real cars making them less exiting and so builders of fakes are really STEALING from owners of real cars. At least 95% of replicas are built because it is a business. In most cases the customer does not really understand the concept of a replica, but fools himself into thinking that he is really bargaining on an undistinguishable reconstruction. Soon he thinks nobody can tell the difference and goes around pretending it is a real car.

It is really sad how wonderfull cars turn less exiting, part of the potential byers going elsewhere as they are disgusted by people presuming they are fakers - or asking the same question over and over again. I for one would NEVER buy any car also being replicated.

 

Why?

I've built a kit car and was able to register it. Of course it would not be registered as Ferrari, but that shouldn't really matter unless you are trying to fool yourself.
Pete

 

Not all countries allow such vehicles to be registered. The usual approach is that a new car built from scratch must meet all the requirements for new cars which include crash tests, safety equipment and close-to-zero emissions....etc. The easy way around all this is using an old title. This is why almost all replicas are using old titles. The rules that will be applied are determined by the date of first registeration.

 

for goodness sake, for a half a million dollars asking, go buy a real Lusso, not a fake.

 

Body doesnt look too bad. The tires seems to be too tall though? Something with the ride height is putting me off.

 

This TR recreation was seen in Naarden Vesting (the Netherlands) earlier today.
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So have I. A fly yellow 250 California. It is listed in Massachusetts as a kit car but for emissions testing it is listed as a 1966 Ford Mustang. Despite changes in the regs Mass still makes emissions testing for kit cars with crate engines difficult unless you go back as far as the 289 block which are exempt. No tail pipe testing or carbs. You need the production plug in ICU unit. What is yours?? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Garnet - my math, based on Tom's numbers, is that 17.5% of GTEs have become fakes; and that represents only the ones we know about!

 

Ed there are a few 206P repros around. The repro P-2,3 and 4s have a well doccumented club where all the chassis going back to the David Piper 900 cars are listed in detail. It would serve us well if the repro GTOs and others were so organized though it is much more difficult today to pass off even a good repro as the real thing. As a repro builder/owner I have been on this soap box for several years now. Just the fact that there is a thread now dedicated to the cause is a start. just one man'd opinion tongascrew

 

Yes but I have seen worse. When they can't get the back end or the steering wheel right, though,what's the point. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

In most cases the cost would be, in reality of an investment, prohibitive. However if well done such as some of the 250 GTO, 250 SWB and other repros it may be worth the effort and expence. However there should be a tag/emblim clearly visible on the car establishing what exactly is going on and an orginization which maintains listings of the details of the creation and history of the car. This thread is a start. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

From what I understand Classiche will build just about anything you want for a PRICE!!! However considering your proposal they will not give a full Classiche certificate. They have several partial, or conditional certificates which have been given out on occasion. After what you have proposed and as long as your checks are good you will probably be able to persuade Classiche to give you some kind of a certificate. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Mercedes Benz Classic center has done several re-creations of lost cars using a mix of off the shelf parts and newly fabricated components and sprinkled "Holy Water" on them and made them real and valuable...

 

Good point. However I don't think Martin Luther "Stuttgart" has come to Vatican Ferrari yet with a "reformation". just one man's opinion tongascrew"

 

Fairly clear paper trail on this one:

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/cardetail.php?reqcardir=FE-250TR-13123

 

The GTE register has three spots of 3583GT as a GTO replica. However, yesterday I received photos of 3583 as a fully restored, matching numbers GTE! The car looks great and the owner has a good history that shows it to never have been made into a replica of anything. I am really glad to know that it is still around.

So now the question becomes what car was spotted as a GTO Replica? The only clues I have is that one of the spots came from Ferrari Model Club Magazine #314 saying it was in the third GP Bugatti-Ferrari Meet, in Divonne, Switzerland. Also it was reported to have used the license plates GE 33600 and also FR 90014. Does this information jibe with any of the cars in your files?

 

No, not correct at all.

Incidentally, we are all very well aware of the breadvan's history, which is a well-known Ferrari, but clearly not "one of the most well known".

Repeat after me. Again:

1. A period rebody for competition is not the same as a modern rebody for pretence.

2. A Mercedes is not a Ferrari.

 

That’s not the case; the kit car industry is expansive. Many different chassis are available. Perhaps they are not viable or allowed in Finland? In the UK the industry is considerable.

Does this, for you, only apply to Ferrari? Is it ok to use a VW Beetle chassis to create something else (example used as many Beetles out there…)? Is it ok to use an old 911 to create a ‘better’ ‘911’?

They certainly eat up the ‘uniqueness’ (if there’s only one, but I know what you mean) by definition, as the more there are, well, you get my drift. But to say builders are stealing from owners of real cars is ridiculous. They are allowing many to enjoy as opposed to one/ a few. For every ‘real’ cobra there must be gosh knows how many replicas/recreations/fakes/tributes which in some cases (Gardner Douglas) are much better driver’s cars than the original.
Horses for courses.

Sure, the production of replica components is a business (with the exception of a few who fabricate themselves for themselves), but many ‘true replica’ parts keep the real cars on the road. The rest of your statement is wrong in the mass majority of cases. Your view is condescending. Unfortunately, not everyone is honest

Not all ‘fakes’/tributes are inferior. I’d rather put ~£100k into having a 911 build to my preference by a master like Karl-Heinz Feustel or Francis Tuthill, based on say a late ‘60’s/early ‘70’s chassis, than buying a brand new Carrera S. A <900kg, 280hp, 2.5L quad cam with an S/T look perhaps, or maybe a R S/T SR fusion with a 3.0 320hp voice? Fake? For me it depends on the intention. Fun? for sure!

Building a nut by nut copy and trying to pass it off as an/the original with intent to defraud is another story. That is simply criminal and should be punished as such.

 

This one is fun. This car is amazing

http://youtu.be/2MJNwSeN1KQ

 

No matter how hard you try, some people will never agree that recreations are acceptable.

Many Ferraris were chassis built with bodies designed and built by other houses. A Ferrari is a Ferrari because of the rolling chassis; not because of the metal attached to it.

Same goes for Rolls Royce. In the early days they only provided the chassis and the metal work was farmed out to coach builders.

If you take a Fiero and put a Ferrari body on it, is it still a Fiero? The answer is yes!

If you take a Ferrari and put a Fiero body on it, is it still a Ferrari? The answer is yes!

Outward appearance is insignificant, it's the mechanicals that make a car what it is. For example, if you have plastic surgery but your innards remain the same, are you still you.....of course you are!

 

They never will be acceptable. Ferrari never made replicas ... try and work that out .

Your opinion, but you still do not understand this:

* A period rebody, such as the Breadvan is perfectly acceptable because no OLD Ferrari was ruined to create it. At the time it was made the Ferrari that was cut up was new, so who cares.

* A replica takes an old classic and historic car and removes the original body that was made by companies contracted to Ferrari and replaces it with a body that's ONLY purpose is to make it look like a car of the past. There is no racing improvements, or any car show to win.

True, but a body made by Darolls has absolutely no historical significance and thus would be a terrible replacement for a Silver Ghosts original body, say made by 'Gurney Nutting'.

If you cannot understand that, then I think it is time I put you on my ignore list because you simply do not care about history and are not an old car enthusiast.
Pete

 

No need to be so testy. This is meant to be a discussion, not an argument!

 

So you do care about old cars?

Thus I'm confused. How can you support this carnage and be an old car enthusiast?.

I could own neither, ie. a replica or the real thing. Heck at the moment I could not even afford a Datsun based GTO replica ... er, well the "financial planner" in the house would not accept it . But the fact that I cannot afford the real thing does not make me jealous and want to get something as close as possible no matter what the consequences.

Instead I set my sites on something that I can afford and something that I believe is very much a 60's type classic car so that I can be involved in this great hobby. In my case its an Alfa Romeo 1750GTV. I'd love to own a GTA, but there is no way I'd ever ruin another 105 series coupe and make a GTA replica ... and that is a minor modification compared to the destruction that occurs to an old Ferrari to make a TR or GTO replica.

There are so many great cars for all different types of enthusiasts, including enthusiasts with different sized wallets, that there is no need for this selfish, I cannot afford the real deal so I will fnck a car so I can have something that I will believe is the real thing.

In the end once we have finished with our cars and it's time to sell on and move on to another car or hobby, isn't it better for all that we try and perserve for future owners that time in history so they too can enjoy a past period of motoring. Note: I'm not saying at all not to use and modify your car, just don't destroy it hunting for something that can never be by turning it in to a replica.

Once I've finished my Alfa restoration I look forward to long drives in the weekends and occassional track days and simply looking after my hobby. I won't be selling her until I cannot drive anymore. I'd also like to add something like a Triumph Stag to the garage and maybe an even older Alfa, and heck maybe a 308GT4 ... but the racing bug is bitting again so I can see another track car coming. Yes this car will be ruined in the transformation to a track car, but I will not be replicating anything and trying to be something it is not.

You can't build a brand new historic car, once they have gone they are gone. Yes you could physically build the car, but it won't have that oh so important history. It won't have taken that married coupe on their honey moon, it won't have been part of somebodies family for many years and so on ... it won't have come home 3rd overall at Le Mans. It's just metal and rubber and means nothing, and is historically insignificant and completely uninteresting.

Best
Pete

 

Every case is different. What is your opinion about #2735GT?

> 250GT comp. Pininfarina/Scaglietti in 1961 (Stirling Moss car, so an important Ferrari).
> Rebodied by Drogo in 1962.
> Body removed in the 90's and put on 250 GT 2+2 Pininfarina #3611.
> New 250GT comp. body created for #2735GT.

What is #3611 today?
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If it is meant to be a discussion, it would behoove you to show some elementary modesty instead of putting in doubt the Ferrari culture of many members, like myself, who have forgotten more about Ferrari than you will ever learn.

Show some respect, and read the patient responses (such as PsK's posts) that you have received. You might learn something.