Difference between 360 and 430 challenge

Hi Guys,

I am looking at getting either a 360 challenge or 430 challenge and was wondering what the difference were between these two models..

I know the obvious exterior and interior mods.

But what about the engine? is the 430 engine different to the 360? Is it a better engine less maintenance etc or essentially the same?

What about the gearbox? suspension etc?

Any technical help will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Tino

 

I assume you know enough to know the 430 engine has more power.

For that reason and because it is newer many who can afford either would opt for the 430. However, I have spent slot of time owning and racing both, and I can say that I prefer the 360.

The 430, although it has more power and torque is heavier. It also has a thinner front 19 inch tire, that while great on the street car, takes too much stress on the 430. The 360 when outfitted with a wing and splitter package is one of the best handling GT cars ever made. It's amazing. And the sound of a 360 with straight pipes sounds like an F1 car with a high pitch scream which can only be a Ferrari. Running costs are about 30% less than the 430.

The bottom line is buy the best car you can find, regardless of model. Also look for one with a wing and splitter or budget for this. The wing and splitter turn evil handling cars into cars that are pure dreams to drive.

Also if you buy them there is a group of 80 FCRA drivers who regularly track and club race these cars.

 

Thanks for the reply..

I am looking at doing some private tuning track days and the occasional CAMS affliated super sprint (I live in Australia)..

To me its more of a cheaper maintenance cost to run as performance really is not that much different between the two models...

I know the 430 is a higher base price so the 360 being cheaper and slightly more expensive maintenace costs would probaly be the way to go..

 

I think he said the 360 is cheaper to run.

 

Re your question in the Aussie forum re compliance, you do realise that neither the 360 or 430 Challenge can be complied for road use in Australia.

M

 

It's not school holidays, is it?

 

Yes I know this but a 360 straddle or scuderia can be hence my question in the aussie forum.. If I can get one of those cars regoed then I might go down that path rather than a challenge..

I'm looking at doing some private Motorsport such as speed event series and the like.. So challenge would be suited if I have to rally reg the car..

Lol is this how u increase your post count..

I don't know how this topic asked for such a response..

 

correct, awesome car to drive

yup, once bugs get sorted out

I was possibly the last person to get a 360CH registered for road use in Australia. There are 4 numbers on the VIN that are put on by the factory to ensure the vehicle gets flagged as non registerable. Also most 360CH and 430CH came into Australia under the classification of race car. Somehow Ross Palmer bought mine in with the wrong boxed ticked, it stated rally use....which is a fluke considering I bought it and the Tas authorities needed to see the import approval to grant reg as being a rally car.
As the car is now back to Nation Cup spec's and wont be used for rally again driving it on the road is not an issue, albeit to get one of these up to rally spec costs plenty. Passenger seat plus belts, very soft springs are needed, floor panels to cover the internal battery, plus other items inc decent alternator.
The biggest problem with the car for road use of rally is the steering rack as its a fast rack with 20 degree turning which makes life hard if you spin on the road and need to do a 42 point turn within 30 seconds before the next car arrives.
If you really want to do rallies (which btw you have to be mad) get a 355CH, its road registerable, has a normal steering rack and easier to maintain. The maintenence costs on the 360ch for rallies is expensive, you can expect to do a right hand engine chassis mount, buy lots of carbon fibre undertrays, ball joints, ties rods and suspension supports as these all break under gruelling road conditions.
Since going back to Nations Cup spec......have done 1 drive shaft (my fault) ((at $160.00)) and petrol........race tracks are easier on the car if the car is built for it...which a 360CH is built for it.


And the 430CH has single stud wheel nuts and carbon brakes.....hence, changing a wheel on the side of the road is nigh on impossible (unless you carry a compressed air cylinder and rattle gun with enough torque to kick start a 747), and going through rotors with rocks, stones ect is expensive. If you choose a 430 you will have to change the 4 wheels to 5 stud aka 360 spec and steel brembo brakes with yellow pagids.

 

thanks for the info i will send you a pm not to clutter this thread..

The 360 looks like the car to get then...

The biggest thing i thought about the 430 was the engine have metal chain rather than the standard belts and this would be better in preventative maintenance i.e last longer before needing to be changed.. I have done a bit of researching and found that the labour to change this is alot more than the standard belts... So this really isnt much of a benefit..

 

Timing chains stretch, belts break......to do a 360ch belt change is simple especially in a CH, there is bugger all interior to remove.

And for the km done in a rally the belt change should be like a normal road car. Remember the belts sit in a box on a shelf for "x" number of years thus dont be fooled into thinking the belts are new when they get fitted.

The most important thing to remember on a 360CH is that its a race car, built for race use, driving it on the roads is a handful, going into a chicane on the opposite direction to a right hand drive car takes some getting use to. The little white road markers feel like you are hitting a pot hole on the sea of tranquility. The wheels will need to be spec'd to road use as roads have camber - race tracks are different. Thus it will need to be like a road 360....hence get a 355CH, either way, if you go down the 360CH path I do have an extensive parts bin......which you will need.

 

I'll answer here as Mike can shed some light on ADR's etc

Firstly, a 360CH has no ignition with key....anyone can jump in and start it, thus for road use you cant just park and go have a coffee.
There is no handbrake and you cannot retro fit one, we tried but to no avail as the rear suspension is totally different to a road car.

To comply a 360CH for rally use.

1. as stated, it needs to have been imported with a rally classification, if you wish to change that classification there may be import fees that need to be paid for.
2. passenger seat
3. seat belts.
4. battery panel/ cover
5. make a mirror undertray in aluminium
6. bolt extra plates onto the right hand chassis (it cracks otherwise)
7. raise the car to a height thats useable on the road
8. soft springs.
9. change the camber to suit road use
10. get a proper "premium fuel" filler that sits in the trunk
11. communications set up (stilo etc)
12. a proper air vent in driver side window as even open nothing comes into the cabin, and with zero insulation one gets very hot.
13. Nitrogen bottle for raising the car up (with fittings to suit)
14. service crew as no spare wheel will fit in the boot
15. yellow pagid brake pads
16. decent disk rotors
17. rock stones screens on every vent (there are 8 in total) and the stones get everywhere.
18. a decent demister...the standard one is useless
19. spare kill switch (they wear out)
20. a decent brass button clutch with 6 bolt fly wheel
21. have a hole cut in undertray to supply air to the alternator
22. a air vent for the F1 unit
23. booster battery back up
24. a 355ch.........its cheaper than the above.

I spent over 20k getting the car suitable to do targa tas, in hindsight should have just stuck to circuit racing.....tyres are about the only real expense.

They hate to be driven in reverse as the clutch doesnt enagage fully and doing rally stuff means backing into and out of places on a regular basis.

And you have to run the correct tyre sizes or the ABS gets confused and you end up with error messages.

Hence, you ca buy a 360CH now for about 100k, look at spending up to another 30k getting it right (if its a good one to start with)....and dont hold your breath on rego...I was lucky and I doubt anyone would get one registered now.

Or buy a 355CH

 

Great thanks for the reply Goober.. Much appreciated..


I prefer the 360 over the 355 hence id rather get one of those instead.

The motorsport events that i would be doing with the car will not need a few of those things so this would make it cheaper somewhat...

This gives me an idea of what needs to be achieved and food for thought...

 

John, one of these days, I'm gonna reach up from the gutter and grab you to find me a 360CH. Until then, do you know who ended up with Mandy's car?

Dale

 

which ones will you not need?

What I supplied is only the basics.........and the fact I have my own staff, parts bin etc labour costs are at $25.00 per hour.

And there is nothing worse than sitting on the side of the road with a broken car all because you didnt want to spend that little bit more.


The motto for racing is simple....Speed is a question of money, how fast do you want to go

The motto for rallying is simple.....Reliability is a question of money, how far do you want to go.

In the end its all academic, it costs to do rallying and personally I had a lot of fun with Simon, was an eye opener. The sour point is that rally people are more ****ed in the head, they think they are Carlos Sainz or Ken Block. Racing people as a rule are more understanding.

Thye roll cages in 360ch's are made for track use and being bolt in they lack the strength to handle a tree.......not that I've seen too many roll cages handle trees too well.

The weight of a race 360CH should be about 1200kg or so....in rally spec with navigator and general crap in the boot.....we tipped the scales at 1600kg, the undertray was double the weight of the one in the car now, and we had to replace it after each event......

 

initally most of the events i will be doing are based on the track or road, very unlike targa tasmania..

Id say from the list for the track time that i am doing i shouldnt need these items, but i will speak with my workshop and see what they think is needed to comply for CAM rulings.. But i am still doing investigating to what option will be best suited for my needs....


5. make a mirror undertray in aluminium
11. communications set up (stilo etc)
12. a proper air vent in driver side window as even open nothing comes into the cabin, and with zero insulation one gets very hot.
14. service crew as no spare wheel will fit in the boot
18. a decent demister...the standard one is useless
19. spare kill switch (they wear out)
21. have a hole cut in undertray to supply air to the alternator
22. a air vent for the F1 unit
23. booster battery back up (already have)

 

You can import and comply a 360 road car or 360 Stradale for road use in Australia , but not a 360C.

You could import a 360C for race use ( ie "off road ") and trailer it to and from events. The fact that a 360C is LHD and doesn't comply with ADR's is going to pretty much prohibit any road use. Also , when the car is imported, the VIN is flagged as a race car, and from then on it always remains a race car and can never be rego'd
430 Challenge - same issues as 360 Challenge.

430 road car ( ie Scuderia ) , is not on the list of permitted imports under the RAWS scheme and never will be, as Ferrari brought the car in to Australia under the full volume scheme. It is theoretically possible (although i'm not aware of anyone having done it) to own a 430 overseas and then bring it in as a personal import - you'll need to check the customs and DoTaRS website for the rules ( there are many ).


M

 

Thanks Mike..

I would be looking at getting a b-registration which will allow driving on the road to and from events and anything that is related with the car i.e servicing, parts etc...

however as you say it will not be road legal registration...

The CS may be the better option for this as many have said, but for the amount of time i drive the car a b-rally reg might suit fine..

 

For the price of a 360 C Stradale, you could buy a 360 Challenge and a 360 road car, and still have change....

While you could possibly get event permits to drive a 360C on the road, what's the point ? If its set up a track race car it will be on slicks with limited ground clearance, and you've already seen Goobers comments regarding using a 360C as a tarmac rally car.

M

 

I would import the CS rather then try and get on locally which would be substanitally cheaper..

As for tyres i would be running r-comps which are a suitable tyre for these type of events but still have more than enough grip to commute to events with...

Goobers comments i think are more suited to targa tasmania type of events, whilst the ones i would be doing are more super sprints, with much flatter (race track) type roads.

Also the roads in Perth are in very good condition maybe compared to other states of Australia...

 

Might be a bit cheaper to import, but cheapest UK RHD 360 CS is going to cost at least AU 240K landed, including GST, duties, LCT and compliance.....

There is a 360C for sale in Melbourne for ~110K, and 360 road car prices are starting at 113K on carsales. So both for 223K ( and already here in Australia ) , less than the cost of the cheapest import 360CS

What do you currently drive...?

M

 

Have you ever actually drive a 360CH?

If not, then go find a decent one and drive it, they are very different to a road car and in the wrong hands can become very deadly. I try to drive within my limited limitations, however you could buy the 360CH that Keith Wong has for sale....its very quick, very fast and had the guts stripped out of it, engine is not standard 360CH per se producing 450hp

 

that is the correct question......what does he currently drive?

 

Here you go

http://my105.com/ListingDetails/tabid/65/p/1/k/Ferrari/id/4040/Default.aspx

 

Yeh im currently looking into the costs of import to see what its actually going to cost.. in terms of import costs, duties and anything else that is related..

I have my eye on that silver 360C currently for sale (which has been for sale for the last 6 months) but theres a red 360C with full micholotti kit that ive also been looking at...

The closest thing to a challenge that i have driven is a 430 scuderia on the track as well as a 458 italia.. Yes they are still road cars the 430 scud was very balanced and predictable..

Could you show me a link of Keith Wongs challenge for sale??

 

As for me i do have some experience with high powered cars.. This is my current ride widebody subaru STI 600 whp that i have been building for the last 5 years (On jack stands atm and nearly complete) and spent way too much on, hence why im trying to get something else to focus on..

A very big handful to drive on standard 235 wide advan ad05s so i went with a widebody to increase the tyre size to 265 rcomps currently but will go to 295 series if the 265s dont have enough grip..
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