Reno Air Race Crash | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Reno Air Race Crash

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by GuyIncognito, Sep 16, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,027
    heres a question,are these planes flown in under there own power,or trucked in and assembled on site?,i also heard the debris left from the P-51 are no bigger then 2'' to 3'' in size,has anybody seen the hole in the ground [3' depth and 8' around?]
     
  2. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    32,274
    Location:
    Seattle Area
    Full Name:
    Dave
    No kidding..... I just cannot imagine being there in person. I'd be a mess having seen that.

    :(

    Jedi
     
  3. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    6,678
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Well said. It wasn't that long ago Jimmy and his plane was on the cover of Air Classics. In tribute to his memory, I pray that we have all have the courage to continue to push the envelope, no matter what our endeavor.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    The racers are flown in to the site but at far less boost than used in the race. The impact site of the crash is hard and unyielding. That's why almost all of the energy was reacted back into the airplane.
     
  5. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,027
    thanks,so this plane has hours on it with all the mods and the pilot has plenty of seat time in it,ive read this guy had plenty of hours in these planes,,crash was into tarmic[concrete or black top] and probuly thick,plane at 400+,thats lots of energy to stop
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  6. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,739
    Location:
    Denver, Albuquerque
    The planes are flown all over the country under their own power.

    Look at the pictures again... many, many larger parts... for instance the big lump laying 50 yards or so down the 'TARMAC' is the engine. One person saw the tail wheel assembly.

    Hitting the hard surface certainly made the plane disappear, though.

    We forget, sometimes that an airplane, by necessity, is a fairly fragile structure, at least relative to solid ground. It's a light metal frame covered with thin metal skin.

    Even with a huge airliner into soft ground, there's almost nothing left.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  7. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    14,656
    Location:
    The fabulous PNW
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    Because 75% of it is air.
     
  8. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I won a bet when the DC-9 of Air ??? ( i can't remember) dove into the Florida Everglades that they would never find it. I grew up near there and I knew that the structure of the substrate is porous lacy limestone and coral..and underground water. All they found was a few scraps of the tail and wings but the rest was deep in the spongey swamp.
     
  9. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    18,221
    Location:
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    From an engineering viewpoint, I would be interested in seeing the collected debris. I've been to many fire scenes and a couple plane crashes but the high speed and lack of fire in this case is somewhat unique.
     
  10. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    18,221
    Location:
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    ValuJet
     
  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    Thanks, Tim. I can't figure out why I can remember NC numbers and call signs from 70 years ago and can't remember that airline.
     
  12. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    14,656
    Location:
    The fabulous PNW
    Full Name:
    Han Solo
    Now known as AirTran IIRC
     
  13. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,081
    Location:
    Tustin Ranch, Cali
    Full Name:
    Enrico Pollini
    Wasnt there a plane crash back in the 80s where there was one lone survivor... I think a young woman or child. They pulled the data recorder and when the plane hit the mountain it did something like 100gs. Cant recall that one... I am also curious. How come we can only find 4 videos of this incident when there were hundreds of video cameras running?
     
  14. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    Messages:
    7,646
    Location:
    California, USA
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Some people are probably not sharing photos and video out of respect for those who perished. I bet a lot will be made available to the NTSB that will never make it into the public domain.

    >8^)
    ER
     
  15. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,300
    Location:
    SBarbara-La Jolla CA
    Full Name:
    KKSBA
  16. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,081
    Location:
    Tustin Ranch, Cali
    Full Name:
    Enrico Pollini
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    79,380
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I just heard from a friend in Reno, she and her son were in the first row of seating, and left at 'ten minutes until'....
     
  18. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,300
    Location:
    SBarbara-La Jolla CA
    Full Name:
    KKSBA
    Fate?

    That's like missing the flight that goes down...
     
  19. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    3,529
    Location:
    Behind a drum kit
    Full Name:
    Mr. Chupacabra
    I know someone who missed a flight once and still has the ticket. It says "Pan Am Flight 103" on it.
     
  20. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    My late sister was i minute late to board the Air Florida flight that went down in the Potomac after taking off from Washington National. She was in the club lounge soothing her anger with a scotch when someone came in and told everybody that the 737 went down. She had another double.
     
  21. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    Somewhere in here I read a good comment that the material of which the trim tabs are made should be changed to RCF to strengthen them. It isn't the tab that is failing and they are pretty well made. The attaching hardware or supporting structure is what is failing. If you examine the photos you can see that the tab is intact as it is departing the hinge. Also the span loading of the wing was lowered considerably when it was clipped by ten feet. So it was able to sustain the load of a 12 G pull up. Amazed that there wasn't flow separation so it must have been within the boundaries.
     
  22. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    18,221
    Location:
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    My thoughts exactly.
     
  23. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    16,464
    Location:
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    The P-51 was designed to fly at up to 440 mph at altitude (where aero forces are somewhat lower), not at up to 500 mph right on the deck. I agree that the trim tab attachments and backup structure need to be stronger, and I'm sure that there are other components that need the same treatment.

    A somewhat analogous situation in Unlimited hydroplane racing. When turbine engines came along in the early '80s, designers found that putting them in the same boats that had previously held Allisons or Merlins didn't work well because of the turbines' comparatively poor throttle response. When the hulls were redesigned to allow appreciably higher cornering speeds, the skid fin (the blade which the boats pivot about when they turn, which is really a controlled skid) had to get much bigger. Unfortunately, boats started losing skid fins, and the designers realized that they had to beef up the fins' support structure (and ultimately, the entire boat) to compensate.
     
  24. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I was thinking of all of that re the P-51 after modification. Adding 100 MPH to the 400 MPH airframe imposes a geometric increase of the loads for which the airplane wasn't designed and therefore there will be some failures. Good analogy to the boats, Jim.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  25. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,300
    Location:
    SBarbara-La Jolla CA
    Full Name:
    KKSBA
    http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/Tragedy-at-Reno.html

    Eyewitness account-

    http://www.ignomini.com/reno.html


    Ignomini Home

    If you are reading this and do not know who wrote it, there are a couple things which must be said in advance. I wrote this for my own well being, and to inform friends and family about how I experienced this tragic event. It is not meant to be journalistic coverage. I have given just enough information to inform those friends who are not familiar with who Jimmy Leeward was, or aviation in general. It is in no way intended to be an analysis of the accident. It was written to help me cope with what I experienced and nothing more.

    It is my stated belief that if Mr. Leeward was in any condition to control that plane, he did his utmost to do so. Also, I believe the event organizer's response was swift and efficient. In my opinion, they did an excellent job of responding to a chaotic situation.

    - The Author

    *

    Jimmy Leeward, of Ocala, FL, was a well-liked, and very experienced stunt pilot/air racer. His P-51 Mustang “Galloping Ghost” had a racing history dating back to the Cleveland National Air Races of the late 1940s. The aircraft was freshly restored and heavily modified, in hopes of wining a Gold Unlimited title at the National Championship Air Races in Reno.

    Winning today requires an airframe and engine combination capable of maintaining speeds of around 500 mph, while flying around an eight mile, roughly oval shaped race course. It is an expensive and dangerous game. On Friday, September 16, while flying in a heat race, at a speed of perhaps 475mph, Galloping Ghost suffered one or more mechanical failures which resulted in the aircraft crashing into the audience in a near vertical high speed dive.

    While many pilots have died in the 48 year history of racing at Reno, no spectator has ever before been killed by a racing aircraft.

    What Happened

    Shortly after rounding the final pylon, and heading past the grand stands, an elevator trim tab broke away from the airplane. This part is used to help balance the aircraft’s control forces. As speed, power settings and aircraft pitch changes, forces on the control stick change. The trim tabs can be adjusted from the cockpit to help balance these stick forces.

    Many years previously, another racing Mustang named Voodoo had this same failure. When the tab broke free of the elevator, the aircraft pitched up sharply, pulling so many Gs the pilot blacked out. Fortunately, the plane continued to climb, and when the pilot came around, he had plenty of altitude, brought the aircraft under control, and made a safe landing.

    For whatever reason, perhaps because of some other unknown mechanical failure, When Jimmy’s plane pitched up it also started to roll to the right. I’m unclear whether Leeward declared a mayday and pulled the plane up, or whether the aircraft pitched up on its own as had previously happened with Voodoo. I cannot imagine any reason to roll the plane in either direction and thus must assume it did this in spite of any pilot input.

    If Leeward was unable to counteract these pitch and roll forces, as appeared to me to be the case, the crash was inevitable. As the aircraft rolled onto its right wing, the upward pitch on the elevator would cause the plane to turn right toward the crowd. It continued rolling onto its back, at which point the upward pitch would now direct the plane toward the ground. Understand all of this is speculation on my part, and in no way based on an official investigation.

    After watching a Youtube video of the crash, and looking at my own photos, I believe Leeward was fighting hard to stop the roll. Among my own photos, I can see left aileron input, in spite of which the aircraft continued slowly rolling to the right. At some point during the process, the tail wheel of the landing gear came down. I have no idea what that implies, but it shouldn’t have been the case. Something may well have gone wrong inside the aircraft’s structure, which contributed to the crash.

    Time Line

    I watched the whole thing happen through the viewfinder of my camera. From the time I spotted Jimmy’s pull up out of the corner of my eye, I swung the camera over and captured a total of thirteen images. The camera records the time of day with each photo, but only in whole seconds. I have no idea if the camera’s time of day is accurate or not. I’m merely using it to timeline the incident.

    By the time I captured my first three shot burst, the aircraft was inverted and heading – apparently in level flight – over the grandstands. The first photo was recorded at 28:58 (minutes/seconds past the hour). There is then a two second gap as I refocused. If the camera is working at its exact rated shutter speed, the next sequence of ten consecutive shots should cover exactly two seconds. According to the time stamps, the elapsed time for the second ten shots was from 29:00 to 29:02.

    It hardly matters how exact the times are. The real point is to illustrate how little time passed from loss of control to impact. The last photo I took of another aircraft before spotting the pitch up was at 28:54. I would say from pitch up to impact was on the order of nine seconds. Folks have been quoted in the press saying they think he tried to maneuver to avoid the crowd. I think he spent that little time just trying to gain control, much less head in a specific direction.

    Time Dilation

    By the time I started shooting the second string, of photos, my mental state had gone from “he’s in trouble,” meaning the aircraft shouldn’t have rolled and turned, to “he’s in trouble,” meaning I think there’s a better than even chance he will crash behind the grandstands. From this point on I’m using words to try and represent what was likely only emotions in my head.

    Watching through a camera viewfinder, the scene has a slow strobe effect. Also, the telephoto lens is making it all seem that much closer. “He’s heading down and is going to hit the grandstands.” This was followed by a realization he’s tucking under, and slowly turning toward me. My final sensation was of “fast…angry sound…coming… HERE!”

    The Box Seats

    Reno’s box seats are ten by ten foot sections demarcated by steel uprights holding aluminum poles with fabric draped over them. They put ten plastic folding chairs in each box. There are three rows of boxes separated by about twenty feet. It’s typical rental company stuff. The boxes are located in front of the bleachers on a thick asphalt hardstand, which is used for heavy aircraft parking. It’s a tough surface. I was sitting on a chair at the front left of our box, which was located in the front row of boxes. As the Ghost came over my left shoulder, I swiveled on the seat to try and keep it in the frame. By the time of my last photo, I was swiveled a little over 90 degrees to the left, and was holding the camera at an odd angle pointing almost straight up.

    Impact

    While still shooting, survival instinct kicked in. The very last photo is a complete blur because I had already started to swivel back the other way. With no time to move, I simply slipped off the chair and ducked down, turning my back to the aircraft and closed my eyes.

    I absolutely knew this was going to be a huge impact, and close enough to very thoroughly kill me. I did not think all these specific thoughts, I’m merely trying to put words to how I felt. There was no perceivable time between squatting down and the crash.

    A pulse of what felt like liquid and sand struck me from behind. Something made several small scratches on my right calf. At the same time another object passed between my legs and left multiple shallow cuts just above the inside of my left ankle. Then nothing…silence. It was over. I heard a couple screams just before the impact, but do not recall hearing anything specific after. The impact was not loud, and other than the blast of material against my back, there had obviously not been any form of fiery explosion, so I stood up.

    The boxes are all adjoining, so you are in close proximity to your neighbors. I looked at my hosts Ken and Nancy who were sitting one in front of the other on the far side of our box. They looked pretty beat up, but without any obvious major injuries. I turned and looked into the box on my left. Two people had been sitting together at the right front of their box, virtually shoulder to shoulder with me. They were both lying face down and unconscious.

    There was a disabled boy in a power chair who had been sitting toward the back left corner of their booth. He and the chair had been blown across the back of the booth. There was a large piece of aircraft structure wrapped around the side of the chair. He was on the ground, also unconscious. The tail gear from the Mustang, and several pieces of twisted aluminum were sitting in the middle of their box (note: this paragraph is mixed up. In retrospect, I was more in shock than I knew. After walking in circles, I mixed up a power chair in the box to my right with the wheel chair in the box to my left. I'm not sure it matters any more to straighten out the details of what I saw to either side of me. The situation was chaotic. That fact speaks for itself.)

    Looking to the back of our box, a man was kneeling and holding his hand over a large heavily bleeding head wound. There is no point in describing other things I saw over to my left. There have been plenty of graphic descriptions quoted in the press. Galloping Ghost impacted just behind the front row of box seats. It had just passed vertical in its dive, so the bulk of the debris scattered over the hardstand in front of us. It hit at high speed and completely shattered. Other than the tail wheel, I could see no other identifiable parts.

    Pictures

    The first three photos below were taken with a 400mm telephoto lens over a period of roughly four seconds. To interpret them, you have to bear in mind the first was taken looking forward away from the grandstands, and the third was shot essentially over the shoulder, but with the camera held almost vertical. The airplane is not flying horizontal, but is coming down at, give or take, an 80 degree angle. In other words almost straight down. After the last shot, if I were to lower the camera to the horizon, it would have been pointed back behind me at the grandstands. I was trying to track the airplane and, of course, was also running through the range of emotions from “he’s going to be killed” to “I’m going to be killed.” (Note: the third shot is really confusing. To get it right in relation to the aircraft's attitude, I believe it would be appropriate to rotate the photo roughly 90 degrees counter clockwise. I was holding the camera at a very odd angle. Whatever the case, it was coming almost dead straight at me in a near vertical dive.)

    In the event, it hit just behind our box row, and several boxes down to the left. I will never forget watching it arc around toward me while filling the viewfinder. Could I have yelled for people to duck? Honestly, my own realization came so late, if I had taken the time to yell before dropping off the seat I would not have made it to the ground in time.







    The next shot below, I thought at the time, was of our box. I now realize it was either the box to our immediate right, or two boxes down. The tail gear assembly in the middle of the frame has passed over or through our box.



    Every surface facing the crash was coated with oil, water, dirt, and biological material. I really don’t want to go any further than that in terms of what the scene was like. I threw all my clothes, including shoes and socks, in a trash bin and went back to the hotel in my boxer shorts and a sweater I had in the back of my truck.

    I was the least injured person in my vicinity. Why, I don’t know. The whole scenario keeps running over and over in my head like an 8-track tape. Normally, I’m not easily affected by things, but this one is definitely going to be running around in my head for life.

    Updates:

    As much as any of us would like to believe we're immortal, I've had some emotional ups and downs in the days since. One thing which was bothering me, was inconsistencies between the box photo I published above and my recollection of the scene just after the crash. CBS posted a pretty stunning video of the crash and its immediate aftermath. After extensive review, I'm now confident the photo above is not the box to my left, but rather the box to my right.

    I'm going to leave the photo here, and add the video frame grabs you see below. The person in the bright yellow/green is highlighted in a green rectangle below. I am highlighted in blue, although in this particular frame there is a person with a red shirt and black shorts in front of me. Other frames in this sequence show me standing next to my host, who has on a black sweater. I'm clutching a bright yellow towel which I had picked up and offered to help stop the bleeding of the man at the back of our booth. I eventually used the towel to clean my arms and legs. It had some pretty ugly stuff on it when I was done.



    Morbid curiosity about where I was at the time of the accident is something I cannot explain, but psychologically it has been important for me to know. In the shot below are myself, on the left, in a light colored shirt and hat, holding a bright yellow towel, and my host in black. Having nothing better to do at this point, and probably in shock, each of us was inspecting his camera gear. Other than asking one another if we were all right, no further words were spoken between us until a couple days later.



    I believe Douglas Adams was right, a towel is the most important thing a galactic hitchhiker can have.

    On More Update:

    This piece was originally written on the Sunday morning after the crash. I drove up to Idaho on Saturday to be with family. This morning, a week later, I've been sent a very clear photo which includes myself attempting to pass the towel back to the man with the head wound, and leaves no doubt as to the utter devastation in the box to my immediate left. I cannot overstate my overwhelming sympathy for everyone who's lives were forever changed by these events.

    One more item which has just come up. I wrote for family and friends, not as an article, but to let them know I was alive and what had transpired. It went viral within hours, so I posted a link on AAFO.com as part of a discussion. As it is now being seen by many strangers, I will introduce myself. My name is Robert Goldman.

    Signoff:
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011

Share This Page