360 P1125 & P1123 Fault codes?

I would guess that means both mass air flow sensors are having a problem (360 has 2 right?), but I am by no means an expert since I don't even own a 360. Does your car feel like its running ok? Because when I've had trouble with MAFs on other cars they ran like crap. I'm sure someone on here has seen the same codes on their car, and will point you to exactly where the problem is. Good luck.

 

Codes
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I just checked my car as it has a CEL on and I got P1104 Control Fuel Air Metering. What kind of code book is that?

 

in "another" forum there is a pdf file with all the codes to the 360.
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Thanks,
It would be great if you could tell me where the PDF is.

 

I am getting the P1123 and P1125 on occasionally with my 2001 Spider.

Could it be the aftermarket free flowing exhaust causing this?
Its a very "open" one with only a small muffler. Cats and manifolds are original (Euro model).

Just food for thought as the car seems to be running well and the emissions etc. are top notch when running!

Any thoughts on the reason for these codes?

 

p1123 and 1125 are long term fuel additive codes. It means the adaptive values (the amount of alteration the e.c.u has to make to keep the fuel mixture right) has reached the limit of it's parameters. These can be caused by a few things:
1. Misfire, even slight, caused by coil pack failure or degradation. Detectable by high high hydrocarbon level with gas analyser.
2. Inlet manifold gasket failure. Common issue. Can be detected by starting a COLD ENGINE and spraying brake cleaner around inlet manifold base while watching adaptive values on obd tester.
3. MAF sensor. Very common fault. When they get bad poor starting and idle are the symptoms. Detectable by looking at reference voltage with an oscilloscope.
4. Leakage in the evaporative fuel system, most commonly the two pipes where they attach at the tanks just behind engine covers.

 

Probably mafs but could be intake gaskets. Try the above posted test on the inlets before plumping for the mafs. If you want the procedure for scoping the mafs pm me...

 

Thanks for the tips and your input!

Last time I checked (about a month ago), the HC value was low at idle (4-8ppm) and at above 2000rpm (10-12ppm) where its tested at our "MOT".
I need to recheck that now though.

It could possibly be the MAF:s as there is indeed slight hesitation at cold startup sometimes (takes 3-5 seconds or so to get to the correct idle speed after startup) and sometimes rough idle / jerkiness when the engine is cold. I found it to be odd to begin with when I got the car.
I got to a conclusion with a short examination that the MAF:s (Bosch part no 0 280 218 012, Ferrari 171707) are commonly used in Rover, Honda AND Ferrari cars and widely available due to that.
They also seem not to be too expensive to test with just to rule out one of the possible causes for the CEL.

I need to check the evap piping as well as per your instructions.

I hope to find the reason as the CEL is indeed annoying even occasionally....

 

How many cycles does it take for the ecu to adapt, if the adaptation is within parameters. I know some of the newer cars (my previous V8 BMW M3) took about 50 miles of driving- noted after an exhaust change. I've been told that in these 360s if there are no changes and the adaptation is within range following 3 cycles, the CEL will go off. Is that right?

 

Ordered 2x new MAF:s to rule out them from the equation.
260EUR / pair from Bosch.
I checked the ones I had, they were original propably, manufactured in 2000.

The investigation continues
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After a week of driving and no CEL it seems that the issue was MAF related in my case.

 

FYI. PDF file of 360 ECU cell codes that I saved from another posting
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Hi Rusty, some excellent tips above thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate on no. 2 above? What changes should one observe or look for with the OBD?

 

I seem to be having the same issue, getting P1125 and P1123 CEL's now, the car has a very rough startup and jerky drive in first (at least when cold). This stuff all came on pretty suddenly, and everything points to the MAFs as the culprit. I know they are Bosch part 0280218012. Can someone profide a link to the best deal, Racambi should have them, but I can't find them, and a DIY if there is one too! TIA.

ETA: Found Racambi's http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=206087 , $1,244 each. WTF?

 

Here is one possible option (I did not buy from here or know a lot about this seller - just a link I saved from reading somewhere).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FERRARI-F360-Spider-00-09-394bhp-BOSCH-MASS-AIR-FLOW-METER-SENSOR-MAF-0280218012-/180731764359?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a1473de87

I remember reading a very long posting about 8 months ago about MAF and its wide range of prices (search function should find it).

 

Thanks. $288.05 is a little more reasonable.

Yes, I just read that entire thread I think, http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295344&highlight=maf , and it did not really help me. Prices are from $50 for a chinese part that most think is inferior even if you cannot notice the difference and does not set off CEL's and the other end is the oem Ferrari part made by Bosch that Racambi stocks for $1200+, although your link above is supposedly 1/6th the cost Racambi wants for them. That fact that there are two of them does not make this easier.

I suppose I should try some sort of MAF cleaner first, before buying something, right?

FWIW, I cleared the CEL codes and they have not come back on for ~100 miles, and the car runs fine once warmed, just starts like crap and first gear is jerky when cold. So it probably is the mafs. Is it possible to cause engine damage starting it (maybe 800rpm for 3-4 seconds, then 1500 rpm constant, let it warm up and it drives ok?). I'm planning to do the major service in a week and hope for at least two more drives before then. So long as I warm it up and it runs smooth, is this ok? Starting it again after it's been warmed fires up perfectly, no studdering at all, no low rpms for a few seconds anymore. It's just the initial startup, and letting it idle to warm then everything runs smooth.

Hopefully just some MAF cleaner will fix this, unless they will melt if I try this?

 

Hi mate im having the same problem with the same codes. did changing your MAF on both sides help?

 

Working through this one myself. I noticed something peculiar. At idle, I've seen my Short Term Fuel Trims vary from +10% to -10% even warmed up (coolant temp >170 or so). They are usually negative. Strangely, my current LTFT @ idle is 0.0 on $11 and -3.2 on $14 - not sure which banks they map to. I assume the code is tripping because somewhere else in the map the LTFT is way off but I haven't seen it.

Does that point to any particular thing? I've looked at the evap pipes and sprayed brake cleaner all around the intake base gaskets to no repeatable effect. Have not checked fuel pressure or HC levels yet. Ran a bottle of Techron through just because I had some on the shelf.

FWIW, I would say the car runs REALLY well except for a bit of a softness - slow reponse - when blipping the throttle for very low rpm downshifts. Tubi headers, kinetix cats, tubi muffler, oem exhaust tips w/valves. fstbiker (430 owner) was in the car recently and commented on how hard it pulled.

 

Take it to a shop to have it smoke tested for vac leaks.

 

Will do.

I'm amazed at how expensive automotive smoke machines are. People make homebrew stuff for cheap but i guess there's some question about the suitability for the sensors in the motor. That, and for EVAP testing pumping straight air is a big no-no.