F-22 back in the sky

http://www.lvrj.com/news/f-22-raptors-back-in-air-after-grounding-130321848.html

 

They haven't found a smoking gun and that's a GOOD thing? This Col. is clearly not an engineer, because when your **** breaks, and then works again and you don't know why, that's a very bad thing because you don't know when it will break again...especially when it can kill someone.

 

In general I'd agree with you, but the reported complaint "feeling light-headed" is a bit subjective and could have been a psychosomatic phenomena. Sort of like the engine going into "auto-rough" mode when flying over mountains in IMC.

 

Seems like a rather simple thing to test for. Send pilots up with the traditional bottled systems for a couple of flights and see if that solves the problem, if it does then it's clearly the complex oxygen generation system they developed for the fighter that needs to be fixed.

 

400 million each ? Woa! How many drones could we build 400 million? That is crazy big money.

 

In all seriousness, what did the pilots do for 4 months, fly trainers, sims, F15s?

 

That amount is an exaggeration; the last amount that I saw which was verifiable was $154 million, still a lot of money, but closer to the other advanced fighters in the world.

 

That's an extremely misleading number. They actually COST something like $130million to buy each one, but when you only produce 1/4th as many as you originally planned, and then factor in R&D costs, the media tends to tell you what it costs with that factored in, which is misleading.

 

From what I understand, I don't think there is any debate about whether or not the pilots were hypoxic..it sounds like that there is no question about that. There is speculation that it's happening because in cold places, the jets are fired up in the hangars and so the jet fumes are ingested and then they get into the oxygen system (which is different on the F-22 than other planes).

 

I see their point because that is closer to the true cost to the american taxpayer, if the Air Force builds more fine, then the price comes down, but if your only building 15 a year then who's number is more accurate? IMO More government projects should be costed out showing true cost.

I wonder what that oxygen system cost?

 

Gotcha. Sorry, I didn't read the article and I should have - it had more details relating to your point. Given that the hypoxia was real, they can't reproduce it again, then prudent monitored flight could be the next appropriate step. It sounds like what they're doing is training (probably retraining since they're senior) pilots on hypoxia symptoms and doing more careful monitoring and baselining. At some point you need to fly and try to recreate the events in flight, if you can't do it on the ground. Still the comment made by the Colonel is inappropriate in context.

 

I disagree. R&D and procurement are two separate things, and the taxpayer deserves to know the difference. The ROI on R&D dollars continues well after the production lines close for the product that it was initially developed for.

 

True costs need to be identified, in the case of the F-22 there were 2 procurement actions, one for the F-23 and one for the F-22, as part of the replacement program, we paid for both prototypes...which cost quite a bit of $$.. The F-23 is now a museum piece, and great aircraft, faster and better in many respects then the F-22. There was no ROI for the F-23..I sat on the source selection team for the F-22, I know the aircraft well, and also the F-23. These costs should also be included in the final product. Making blanket statements on how the government continues ROI on R&D dollars is faulty, many programs are cancelled, and the program technology is already obsolete..a google list will give you many...and many you will never hear about.

 

I know what these cost first hand because I see the DD-250 form and have some of them saved for posterity. People in the media and most everywhere else talk about those numbers without having a real factual clue as to what they're talking about and thus, should hold their comments.

Entering into discussion at any length about this volatile subject is usually fruitless so I won't do that here. Each jet is a different price based on negotiations, variances, etc. there is no one set price but on average, the $125-130 million range is close enough. The first block ships were sometimes more. When I was on the 777 program in Everett, they were going for the same price but granted, they hold a lot more folks.

I am just glad we are flying again, two of them took off a half hour ago into a crystal clear blue Marietta sky and went vertical toward their gaining base. Goodbye Georgia, hello Virginia.

 

Because they're back to flying do you think the demo team will start going to shows again as well? I ask as we're going to Aviation Nation this year and my wife is looking forward to seeing them (since she's never had the pleasure of seeing the F-22 perform it's magic).

 

Unfortunately, the Air Combat Command website lists no remaining performances for 2011; just a note saying "See you in 2012!"

 

Yeah I saw that too. Wishful thinking I suppose!

 

The raptor was at the salinas airshow two weeks ago. Man was it loud!!!!
Ed

 

i saw one fly last year,what i really miss is seeing ''F-14 Tomcats'' at the chicago air and water shows

 

Friday, I will be at Holloman AFB, for the upcoming airshow.

I am bringing my 35mm camera.




I really want to see the Pigs. (F-4E/F).

 

I sure hope you can share those pics, I used to work those E model and G model F-4's that are now drones.