348 - change of perception?

Hi all. I'm new to this forum and pretty new to the Ferrari scene having just bought my first. She's a '93 348 TS. I looked at 308s, 328s, 348s and 355 during my search and fell for the 348 regardless of some of the 'advce' out there about that particular model. I've waited 20 years to buy her and she's now having a bit of work done to bring her up to scratch and to be honest the wait is killing me.
In the mean time I was given a book about the 348, 328 and Mondy probably to shut me up talking about my car for 5 minutes (wife's patience is wearing thin!). Its basically full of contemporary articles and has maybe 15 or so written about the 348 from the US, UK and a couple from other countries. One thing that's interesting is that not one of them says that the 348 is anything short of excellent. Several are tests of the 328 vs the 348 and the newer model wins in every catagory in every test. That includes one where they're driven by a Ferrari test driver. The 348 was voted one of the 10 best cars ever by Road and Track, I think it was, and described as the Best in Show at Frankfurt when it was launched. I also read 4 contemporary road tests involving the 348, Esprit, NSX and 911 in which the 348 comes out on top in all including its handling on the track, which was surprising given the debate about that particular subject. Two of the tests were supposedly 'promoting' the Esprit by saying that it was now closer to the Ferrari.
Anyway, got me thinking. Is there any contemporary literature prior to luca di montezemolo's disparaging coments about the model (which even the most nieve realise was merely to point out why he was so necessary to the company) which paints the 348 as anything other than a superb car? Luca's coments were reiterated ten years after he took over but they were origionally made in 1991. It seems like from that moment on the perception of the 348 was different. Sort of like the story of the Emperor's Clothes, if you're familiar with it. Everyone nodding sagely about faults they couldn't see before. A motoring program over here in UK later said that the 348's handling felt like the wheels were made of wood. Their origional road test of the 348 played out to the song 'simply the best'.
I'm happy for anyone to disagree, tis a forum after all, especially our 355 brethren obviously, but I can't find anything wrong with the car and I drove a 328, 348 and 355, one after the other. And it seems no one could find fault till one slightly egotistical (but incrediably influential) man put the car down. Is it just me or does that seem a little odd? I'm sure people wouldn't comment on the 348 who hadn't driven them else they would look a bit daft so how did the perception of the 348 do a 180 in about 91/92?
Nos

 

Very good 1st post and you are correct.

I remember reading about the 348 many times not once did I ever read negative comments. Unfortunately in time certain faults were found in the early models but by the 93 models most problems were resolved, and the car is an excellent example of a Ferrari.

Correct on another point, Luca di Montezemolo was a D I C K in making such a comment, he did exactly that as in to show what was supposedly wrong with Ferrari and he being Almighty God to fix it. In the mean time he alienated current owners by slapping most of them in the face who were loyal to the brand by discussing the 348, Bad Luca Bad. Sad to say JC from Top Gear was no better, he also appraised the 348 when first released he then contradicted his statement after Luca's comments. Talk about flighty lol Bad Jeromy Bad

 

And with respect to mr Clarkson, I've got nearly all of his books..... and whilst his key focus is cars, his is predominantly an entertainer.

His books' content constantly contradict and even he admits that anybody who takes his reviews seriously is an idiot.

The key thing being entertainment and public focus......and keeping yourself in the public eye - hence Clarkson always contradicts himself.

And once you recognise this, his articles and broadcasts become even funnier


But I'm in the same boat as the OP regarding the 348. It will be my first F-car (probably my last too).... I don't give a t0ss what other people think.
The only downside is that the public's perception has a bearing on trying to sell the thing!

But echo - "good first post" and welcome to the best Ferrari forum in the world

DAn

 

Nice first post, welcome.

 

Definitely!

Welcome Pete!

I agree with you, the reputation of the 348 suffers because of Luca di Montezemolo's self-important comments rather than because of any real problems with the car.

While LdM has been good, on the whole, for the fortunes of the company, he has been a terrible Ambassador for the history of the marque. Essentially, any Ferrari that is not brand new and produced under the leadership of LdM is rubbish in LdM's opinion.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

very nice first post.



WELCOME!

 

My first Ferrari was a 348 and loved it...I liked so much until I considered returning the 360 because it didnt have the feel or rawness of the 348 ...


Besides who cares it still a Ferrari!

 

Please put spaces between your paragraphs!!!!!!!! <sticks tongue out>

Another person who continually criticises the 348 at every opportunity is motoring journalist Andrew Frankel. Every time he writes an article about a Ferrari, he puts the boot in.

 

Thanks all, warm welcome. I like Clarkson as well but do take what he says with a fist full of salt. In the book I got there's actually an article about the 348 by him. He asks,

"should the man who wants to spend £76,000 on a motor car buy a Ferrari 348 tb? To which the answer is yes, yes and yes a thousand times. Question two is whether the reality lived up to the legend as far as I was concerned, to which, again, the answer is yes, yes and yes a thousand times. If the car had been good, or even very good, that would have been enough. The fact that it was a Ferrari would have swung the vote. But the car is, in fact, a sensation."

Sounds like he quite liked it at the time. Thing is most of the reviews from when the 348 hit the streets were in this vein. During the first year of release the waiting time for a 348 in the states hit more than 5 years, it was only slightly less in the UK. Then effectively Ferrari in the form of LdM says that they don't think it's a great car and everyone suddenly changed their minds.

I know why LdM did it, he was using the car to demonstrate the problems with Ferrari, but those problems were more about finances, construction and distribution, more about moving with the times as a company, and less about any given model. Personal opinion is that LdM has done some good things in Ferrari, he's an excellent business man and his goal to raise Ferrai back to the top of F1 was needed to support the marque's place within the motoring hierarchy. What he did lack, though was the passion of Enzo, part of the soul of the company was lost when Enzo passed away. Enzo made cars that were desireable regardless of price. They were also generally drivers' cars. LdM was proud of the fact that 'his' Ferraris were driven far more often than the older models (twice as many miles per year on average), they were more useable and he made a point that Ferrari would never again make an entry level model like the Dino. Don't know about others but I think the Dino's a pretty good car. He used the 348 to demonstrate why he needed to change things and the 348 effectively was used to cement his position within the company. He was more important than the car. After his comments I'm surprised no one asked him why he had bought a 348 himself, with his own money, prior to taking over at Ferrari.

If anyone's interested the book is 'Ferrari 328-348 & Mondial 1986-1994 Ultimate Portfolio' I got it from Amazon over here in the UK.

Nos

 

Hi Sy, how's life?

 

Like the others said, great first post!!!

I wonder myself the same. I think the 348 was a huge jump in design style compare to the 328. Im not say better or worse, but I think those two models were maybe the most radical change in the line. I think the difference is even more then the difference from the 355 and 360. Almost all the models are round, curvy and smooth where the 348 holds a lot of sharp razor square look, also my favorite.

I wonder when it came out if it was a dramatic change in style where it was a love/hate response and when the 355 came afterwards and it put the curves back in the V8's series line. Maybe thats what everyone wanted and started to talk down on the 348. Otherwise I see no reason for huge hate.

Come on, they say the 348 handles badly, how is the 355 so much better when so many things are the same(I know there are differences but we are talking about a huge 5 years newer). So of course its better, but I dont believe its 5 years more advanced in handling. Im not saying a 355 is less, Im saying the 348 is not as bad as described.

The last thing I believe that backs up the 348 was not so bad, it was in Sept in 2000 when Ferrari wanted to test the engine of the ENZO. They choose a 348 to do that. Now in Sept in 2000 there were a bunch of 355 around Im even sure a few 360's. Given the money Ferrari has, I dont believe they would test their greatest super car of all time in a lemon.

 

+1, Luca sells and makes money off of new cars, simple as that.... he needed a scapegoat.

Many write articles about earlier models and if they all started out with "What a Fantastic...." everyone would set down the magazine. Controversy sells magazines and gets attention, just the way it is.

The 348 was first to the plate with EFI, complex engine monitoring systems for the day, sub framed unibody improving on that of the TR's..... As sure as change happens, when it does and folks that don't understand new systems... they long for the days of the Weber or mechanical injection, while ignoring the brilliance of the computer controlled systems that are new to them. Teething problems are inevitable with new technology, always will be. Teething problems, poorly understood advanced technology in a new model being offered right in the middle of a hard market down turn........ the perfect storm for a few bad attitudes of a terrific model.

When one studies the advancement of technology in all of the Ferrari models, it becomes quite evident how important a model the 348 really was. Throw into the mix how Ferrari took that technology directly from the race track to the road cars and it elevates the 348 even higher.

 

Pete, welcome to FChat and congratulations on the acquisition of the lovely 348 model.

It is posts such as yours, and owners with this type of attitude that counter the haters and naysayers...

Good for you, and like you, I could care less who thinks what about the "lowly" 348...I bought one because I love the model, and no amount of negative disussion about it will ever discourage me or cause to me even consider dumpimg it


.

 

Thanks. As I said I looked at all the V8s from the early 308s to the 355. I drove the 328, 348 and 355 and out of them all I prefered the 348 and by quite a margin. I could see why people liked the classic 328 driving experience or the slightly more cultured 355 with powered steering etc but for me the 348 was just fantastic. I guess that's why I don't get the negative press. So much seems to be hearsay and rumour and so little seems to be based on fact.

When I was looking for my car I got loads of advice and much of it was to avoid the 348, due to handling mostly. When I asked for specifics the general responce was along the lines of "I hear that....", "I've read that....." or "Apparently....." Essentially most, if not all, the negative comments were from people who didn't know, they just thought. It seems like the profile of the 348 took one comment to trash and that comment has sporned years of tosh written about the car. Makes you wonder what it would take to reverse the trend?

 

Take my comments with a pinch of salt, as I have yet to own or even drive a 348 - despite it being the car of my dreams. Pretty much everything I "know" about the car is gleamed from many hours eavesdropping on great discussions on here. So with that disclaimer out of the way...

These cars are on average 20 years old. I suspect many examples that have squirrelly and unpredictable handling could have suspension problems: damaged components (worn bushes?), never had an alignment done, etc... and by all technical accounts I've read on FerrariChat, the 348 is a very sensitive car to suspension set-up. Even when the car isn't abused by thrashing it or hammering through potholes, time can do a lot to the condition of joints over two decades.

When properly maintained and aligned, many owners have reported the joys of their Ferrari's handling, and there have isolated instances of suspension condition just not being thought of before someone popped by the complain about the handling characteristics of their 348. If you want particular improvements in very high speed conditions, many have found front splitters a particular assistance. When I eventually get my own 348 in the future, I shall be particularly attentive to getting the suspension bushes renewed and having 4-wheel laser alignments performed.

Anyway - enjoy the car!! I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time with it.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

When the 348 was intro'ed to Socal a group of us prospective owners were invited to a 348 flogging. The 348 was touted as a hot street machine with racecar maners. What struck me most about the 348 was here were 6 to 8 348's at WSIR being flogged continuously by the guest drivers giving us ulimited laps around the track. Not one 348 broke down. A miracle for Ferrari never yet to be repeated. Those cars just took the punishment. I decided right there I had to have one.

 

Thanks, Andrew. Thing is you often don't get such a disclaimer. Often its a "348? Dodgy handling! Poor build quality!" or words to that effect. Some say they're not keen on the lines but when you mention an F40 they drool. Ever seen a side shot of an F40 compared to a side shot of a 348 TB/GTB? The lines are so similar its incrediable. (would post comparison but on iphone and can't work out how. Someone else care to post?) re handling, rear end snapping away at the limit? Sounds like a Testarossa to me, but that doesn't seem to attract the same criticism. Build quality? I looked over 308s and 328s when searching for my car, didn't find one earlier model who's build quality was as good, just seems like things slowly got better over the years.

All in all I'm surprised that the Ferrari fraternity chose to distance itself from such a great car, in many ways a mile stone for the marque. Enzo said that Ferraris were racing cars first. He pushed to develop cars such as the 288GTO and F40 and the 348 was in development when he died. It was to be a road going race car, no power steering, no traction control, no mod cons, (pretty much no options actually). It took ideas from the 288 and F40 such as lowering the engine with a dry sump, mounting it longitudinally - no boot? Never mind. Its not meant to be a tourer. It basically took everything Enzo thought a road going Ferrari should be and made it accessible. Then the new management at Ferrari after Enzo's death needed a raison d'etre so they trashed it. Shame really.

 

For those questioning the looks and overall appeal of the 348, I can offer a unscientific study that happened today.

I had my 348 out at a local racing event. I parked the car and a few minutes later, a beautiful Audi R8 parked along side of it. As I stood in the shadows, people began approaching the two cars and taking pictures. What amazed me was the fact that almost every person looked at the 348 in more detail and almost ignored the Audi (which by the way I think is an awesome looking car). One guy mentioned liking the Audi's headlight design and his friend agreed but followed up by saying "True...but that is a Ferrari, anyone can buy an Audi!!" The others agreed.

So, my point is that even a 20 year old Ferrari 348 gleams as much and at times more attention as a brand new supercar.

As far as its reputation from the so-called experts, I would like a poll on how many of the naysayers have actually driven or worked on a 348. Probably very few.

As far as Jeremy Clarkson is concerened, every new model makes the last model a piece of crap. Like others have said, simply entertainment.

As with all now legendary cars, time will only tell the true story of the 348's legacy. But I would be willing to bet that it will read something like this:

"In a time when the automotive world was changing from real cars to todays modern "it drives for you" automobiles, the Ferrari 348 was the last of the real supercars. Those who were hell bent on changing our passion and simpifying things frowned upon it's simplicity and manors. They lost sight of the fact that a true drivers car should not be stale and easy but should be raw, simple and at times dangerous and frightnening. The way a real supercar should be. A car that creates a bond with the driver, not just simply drives them around.

Well, sadly those days are gone and will probably never return. But, for those lucky few that can afford to take the ride and grab the wheel to the Ferrari 348, the days when men were men and the machine was your passion, will live on forever."

Just my two cents.

Thanks

 

Thanks mate all well said. Regarding a poll, was thinking of a good idea for one. Unbiased, asking some questions of all on FerrariChat. How do I set one up?

 

+1

The criticisms of the 348 are largely exaggerated.

 

Bumped into Luca a couple of weeks ago at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

Unfortunately, didn't manage to get an interview so couldn't ask him about the 348.

EDIT. Just noticed, that's me in the background on the left in the first picture with the headphones/video camera.
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Terrific post.

 

I'll be making campaign buttons later. They'll read "Dave Helms for Mayor of Maranello, 2012"

Nicely said, Dave.


Now, Mr. Helms, ... isn't there a thread (or two actually) in the 308 section that you're itching to post into?

 

Now.... If I could identify the JackLeg Son........ who did the climate control system circuitry......

I used up all my nice guy Boulder Milktoast attitude and needed a break before going THAT direction...... most in that section already have me on 'Ignore'.

Now with Sy's project back in action again, which seems to light a fire under my backside each fall.... we will see what kind of HP can be rung out of these.

 

I think the criticisms are well deserved. But all those problems are answered not by Ferrari but by the aftermarket. The 348 is getting very close to the last Ferrari you can take apart and "heal" in your home garage. What else but the 348 can give you the passion, good looks, and fun for $35k get in fee. And many of those for $35k are mostly sorted.